Miscellaneous News

Mr T

Senior Member
I think first we need to define interference of internal affairs...
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"China reserves the right to make the necessary response to safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese media," Wang said at a daily briefing."

That sounds an awful lot like the Chinese government saying that it has a right to tell other countries to let Chinese media operate within their borders. Hence interference in internal affairs.

As a matter of fact the BBC itself is partially funded by the British government direct via the TV license
Not by the British government. The money comes directly from people who pay the licence fee. The money is also collected by the BBC rather than the government on its behalf.

that point is moot since on technicality both the BBC and the CGTN can be considered to be in a similar
They're not similar in a meaningful way. The BBC does not take its editorial line from the UK government. BBC reporters frequently ask hard questions of ministers or talk about the unpopularity of decisions during reporting. It also invites critics of government policy and members of the Opposition to speak freely.

Whereas CGTN just parrots Chinese government positions. There is not even a fig leaf of balance in its reporting. Regardless of whether or not that is the right thing for China/the CCP, it's not allowed under Ofcom rules.

as I have explained above, as well as the fact that other similar networks that are arguably controlled by other state owned partner companies
First, see above. The BBC is not owned or controlled by the UK state.

Second, there is no ban on state media per ce. The applicable rule in this case is control by a political party. In countries like the UK, the state is not one political party. There is also separation of powers, so you can have a national broadcaster like the BBC that remains independent of government.

Whereas in China, as the CCP constantly reminds us, there are no separation of powers and the CCP is the Chinese state. It's also very clear that the CCP sees the purpose of the media primarily to promote and advance its own agenda. The Chinese media is not there to report the news impartially, and they certainly are not there to hold the Chinese government to account. In contrast the BBC very much sees itself as being there to report the news rather than a government's position or that of a political party.

They only difference is that the other networks produces programs that are in line with the overriding narrative of the UK Al Jazeera being a case in point
That's nonsense. Al Jazeera is not a pro-UK channel. They're very critical of Israel (possibly the UK's most important partner in the Levant) and even broadcast a documentary alleging that Israeli diplomats and groups lobbied the government to have a more favourable policy on Israel - which isn't surprising, as that's sort of what they do. However, if Al Jazeera was pro-UK it wouldn't have aired any such documentary. It was also very critical of the invasion of Iraq. Again, a pro-UK channel wouldn't have done that.

The example of channel 4 is interesting as well... they are critical of conservative party, in fact I remember that they were also critical of the Labour Party when they are in power but in terms of foreign narratives I would presume they are completely in line as well...
Completely the opposite. Channel 4 was critical of the invasion/occupation of Iraq, it was not friendly towards the intervention in Afghanistan and it is very much pro-Palestinian.
Now additional reasonings by OFCOM also contributed to the ban, one of which was the broadcast of HK protest...
Not correct. Ofcom said that last year they had reported CGTN was in breach of the rules over their coverage of protests in HK but the sanctions are still being considered, so they did not lead to the ban.
There was also mention of an investigation in 2016 on the reporting of the arrest of Peter Humphrey in 2013 and 2014... I find this details irrelevant as a cause or example of the delicensing, but shows a mark against OFCOM in the motivation of its decision. Since the investigation was conducted 4 years ago and no actions was thus taken given the findings
Again, that is not correct.

Peter Humphrey made a complaint after he had returned to the UK. It's not clear when he made the complaint, but Ofcom only
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that the investigation was being conducted. The investigation was
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, when CGTN was found in breach of the rules. Again it seems that the sanction is still pending.

In terms of the freedom of speech and freedom of expression argument I will concede, as CGTN is still available online and in print...
Noted, although I don't think CGTN have a newspaper. You might be thinking of the Global Times.
but the delicensing is certainly the UK going back on its own principles
No, it's not.

The rules on ownership/control are important because the UK is not an anarchy where you can do whatever you like. As a democracy it's also necessary to limit the ability of all political parties to dominate the news by having their own TV channels. Otherwise the wealthiest political party would be able to have multiple "independent" TV stations and news channels with well-known presenters drawing in crowds but spreading one-sided views.

You may think that's unreasonable, but it's a consensus in the UK on how we can keep things fair for everyone.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm just sitting at my window watching the tumble weed rolls by. It's more fun and exciting than to read some of the tosh that comes out of someone's fantasy.

@siegecrossbow


"This is the exception but not the norm."

But siege. China must be doing something right (even though is boring etc.) To illicit a draconian 1984 style outright censorship from the world's 'freest' nation?
 

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is the exception but not the norm.
I disagree. CGTN has slowburn style. It may not be as arrogant as RT or BBC, but it doesn't need to. It'll slowly and steadily find an audience who are curious. This way it can win over moderates. Unlike RT (with its incendiary content), it's style is fact-based and verifiable. Also the content is quite solid, and improving. Not as eye-catchy as other media, but it'll be able to attract moderates. It's also improving other time. No need to go rah-rah like other channels.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I disagree. CGTN has slowburn style. It may not be as arrogant as RT or BBC, but it doesn't need to. It'll slowly and steadily find an audience who are curious. This way it can win over moderates. Unlike RT (with its incendiary content), it's style is fact-based and verifiable. Also the content is quite solid, and improving. Not as eye-catchy as other media, but it'll be able to attract moderates. It's also improving other time. No need to go rah-rah like other channels.

No words required.


Here it is folks. Official China foreign ministry rebuttal to the allegation peddled by the BBC on Xinjing. Where's that man from the A-Team?


 
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Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
"China reserves the right to make the necessary response to safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese media," Wang said at a daily briefing."

That sounds an awful lot like the Chinese government saying that it has a right to tell other countries to let Chinese media operate within their borders. Hence interference in internal affairs.
Not even close... China does have the legitimate right to response when the interests involves a Chinese entity operating in a foreign country... are you saying that should CNN for example feels that an overseas arms of its media group has been unjustly persecuted, it does not have the right to response... given that CGTN is state owned media network thus China has every right to response to such events... again the UK is acting upon an inherently foreign entity thus not a simple case of internal affairs...
Not by the British government. The money comes directly from people who pay the licence fee. The money is also collected by the BBC rather than the government on its behalf.
Again not even close, the license fee whilst supposedly collected by the BBC is required by law to be paid into the government’s consolidated fund... TV Licensing, the agency tasked with fee collection does not retain any revenue from the tv licensing fees, and all monies are passed onto the government, who then passes the funds back to the BBC in the form of a grant-in-aid by a department of the state... if you don’t believe me read from TV Licensing yourself
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The tv license is literally a tax in all but name... and simply adding steps into the process doesn’t take away that it is fund by the government as a grant no less.
They're not similar in a meaningful way. The BBC does not take its editorial line from the UK government. BBC reporters frequently ask hard questions of ministers or talk about the unpopularity of decisions during reporting. It also invites critics of government policy and members of the Opposition to speak freely.

Whereas CGTN just parrots Chinese government positions. There is not even a fig leaf of balance in its reporting. Regardless of whether or not that is the right thing for China/the CCP, it's not allowed under Ofcom rules.
Semantics... I have already shown that the BBC is funded partially if not wholly by the government in the form of a grant as required by UK law, their editorial choice to question to ministers with difficult questions about their own internal affairs is irrelevant, this extents also onto questions of views and actions of ministers and government regarding foreign policy which is an internal matter until an official statement by said ministers or by the government is made.

In the same way, the editorial choice of CGTN to express the position of the government of PRC is their own business so long as the programs presents facts.
First, see above. The BBC is not owned or controlled by the UK state.

Second, there is no ban on state media per ce. The applicable rule in this case is control by a political party. In countries like the UK, the state is not one political party. There is also separation of powers, so you can have a national broadcaster like the BBC that remains independent of government.

Whereas in China, as the CCP constantly reminds us, there are no separation of powers and the CCP is the Chinese state. It's also very clear that the CCP sees the purpose of the media primarily to promote and advance its own agenda. The Chinese media is not there to report the news impartially, and they certainly are not there to hold the Chinese government to account. In contrast the BBC very much sees itself as being there to report the news rather than a government's position or that of a political party.
If as you say there is no separation power then the party is the state and the state is the party, then the state owned media group is as advertised, a media company owned by the state of the PRC... to make a specific delineation in regards to the PRC is political bias against this specific one-party state... the state media company merely made the editorial choice to stand with a pro-state view, if the programs had expressed the facts of the other side but not expanded on them it cannot be constituted as unfair... as nearly all media in west does pretty much the same, they express the minimum facts of the Chinese side and then expand massively on the critic side...
That's nonsense. Al Jazeera is not a pro-UK channel. They're very critical of Israel (possibly the UK's most important partner in the Levant) and even broadcast a documentary alleging that Israeli diplomats and groups lobbied the government to have a more favourable policy on Israel - which isn't surprising, as that's sort of what they do. However, if Al Jazeera was pro-UK it wouldn't have aired any such documentary. It was also very critical of the invasion of Iraq. Again, a pro-UK channel wouldn't have done that.
This one admittedly is my bad in not expanding on my point... in this case I wasn’t referring to Al Jazeera as pro-UK rather the position of anti-China, since we were talking mainly about bias against China, which Al Jazeera is in line with the overriding narrative of the UK... and to add Al Jazeera’s editorial choice to express views that are pro-Doha is the same as your above accusation you place on the Chinese... simply because Doha is not a major power in the world’s perspective doesn’t take away from their obvious bias...
Completely the opposite. Channel 4 was critical of the invasion/occupation of Iraq, it was not friendly towards the intervention in Afghanistan and it is very much pro-Palestinian.
Same with above, it is my bad for not expanding on my meaning
No, it's not.

The rules on ownership/control are important because the UK is not an anarchy where you can do whatever you like. As a democracy it's also necessary to limit the ability of all political parties to dominate the news by having their own TV channels. Otherwise the wealthiest political party would be able to have multiple "independent" TV stations and news channels with well-known presenters drawing in crowds but spreading one-sided views.

You may think that's unreasonable, but it's a consensus in the UK on how we can keep things fair for everyone.
I am not sure how to response to this... since if fairness is main driving force behind the rules then if almost all channels have one singular voice... and that is anti-China... with maybe a few that is neutral at best, then surely the fairness expressed and is so important, is not served and said principal is also not followed... in case of misunderstanding this is not a point of rebuttal but merely a statement on the duplicity of the UK in regards to its supposed principal of fairness.

However, there is one thing that I don’t understand... OFCOM and the UK government obviously know full well that the license holder Star China Media Limited would not have any editorial control over CGTN, as the UK government’s position as well as most major western government’s position is that any PRC state owned media companies/channel, CCTV, CGTN etc are mouth pieces of the Chinese government in that case the initial justification to award the license was enough for the UK to award the license and if they accepted the initial justification and nothing else has changed regarding the facts of the holder of the license, as the report has not show any other reasoning, then they allowed CGTN to air whilst knowing of these facts only to use this specific fact as the main drive force for delicensing... then there is nothing apart from a political motivation disguised as fairness...
 
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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not by the British government. The money comes directly from people who pay the licence fee. The money is also collected by the BBC rather than the government on its behalf

Again not even close, the license fee whilst supposedly collected by the BBC is required by law to be paid into the government’s consolidated fund... TV Licensing, the agency tasked with fee collection does not retain any revenue from the tv licensing fees, and all monies are passed onto the government, who then passes the funds back to the BBC in the form of a grant-in-aid by a department of the state... if you don’t believe me read from TV Licensing yourself

This is a classic of whats going on inside his head. It's a good job some of us here lived in the U.K. otherwise we will all succumbs to his LIES. Yes I'm calling out his lies!

Everyone with an ounce of brain knows the BBC is a public funding organisation set up by............ The British government. All my first year economic and political students knows that. But for him to try and separate the BBC from the British government is pure fantasy. And his justification is that taxes are collected separately! And as such it doesn't make it a government organ or a mouth piece.
I think I'll use that one next time I refuse to pay my license fee! On the ground it's a private organisation and therefore I haven't broken any laws that requires me to pay this tax!

And since the British government is the effective pay master for all those working at the BBC. They can have a massive say in what to produce and not produce. Even the British had a saying.....

Who pays the piper calls the tune.

But of course, our friend here lives in an alternative fantasy world all by himself. That is the law of piper don't applies to the UK. But if China had done that, he would argue to the end of the the world that CGTN is under influence of big bad commies CCP!
 
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