Chinese Economics Thread

[ougoah]

Hopefully the craze with luxury items is just a fad, much like it was a fad in Japan until the 1980s. Japanese used to buy luxury brand items and travel overseas to showcase how successful they are.

Now not many Japanese travel overseas anymore because they have discovered it is mostly over-hyped. Same thing happened with luxury brand items as it has lost its glamour and prestige, They discovered that there are many craftsman in Japan that can provide better quality products at less cost and designed uniquely to their taste and lifestyle. Fashionistas are more focused now on finding a craftsman or artist that can provide unique products to project one's individualism and lifestyle.

People crave luxury goods item to stand out and show their individualism. Yet the irony you loose your uniqueness once everyone around you becomes affluent and can afford the same luxury goods.

Hopefully. But I think China's got a long road ahead to reach that level of maturity when it comes to spending.

On the issue of wielding consumer power for political purposes, boycotting Australian goods and services is probably going to result in a net gain for China. It can buy those things from elsewhere. Australians are overall already beyond wealthy they don't need another dollar from China. Students who simply must study overseas can study in other countries, maybe even consider diversifying from English speaking ones. While Chinese universities may be spilling over with students, it's an opportunity to create more that provide a certain acceptable quality of education. How hard is it to just multiply the number of second/third rate institutions across the country? They don't need to be like the top 10 universities in China. It's just a matter of infrastructure and teaching content. You'd think a centralised country can pull this off pretty easily.

 

[bajingan]

Meh, I’m against tariffs on food stuffs since it hurts the average person more.

Need 500% tariffs on western luxury goods.

Maybe China can increase beef imports from the us while keeping the trade deal promise and at the same time showing american allies that not only there is a price to pay by following us containment policy against China but also that americans will eat their lunch at their expense

 

[hullopilllw]

Maybe China can increase beef imports from the us while keeping the trade deal promise and at the same time showing american allies that not only there is a price to pay by following us containment policy against China but also that americans will eat their lunch at their expense

我想 the chinese government already see that during the trade talk..

 

[hullopilllw]

While I very much agree that this greed and lust for foreign luxuries is a blood-letting area for the Chinese economy and also that it rewards the incorrect attitude towards life, I also believe that it has a place... for now.

I feel that the Chinese government has harnessed this otherwise negative energy and desire, to grow China's economy. When people yearn for status symbol items and to be perceived as rich, they put their life effort into making money and actually becoming rich. This drive, almost as strong as the instinct to survive in many Chinese, is a major force behind China's economy growing so quickly. These people earning so much money so they can consume so many luxuries (while paying the taxes to do so) and frivolously spend money in fear that any frugality will be perceived as poverty, drives and boosts Chinese domestic consumption as well as per capita income/GDP.

I, for one, am the opposite of such a person. I have never craved a material luxury before since I was ingrained by my father from a very young age that men should desire only 2 things in limitless fashion: first is the knowledge in his mind, and the second is the athletic capability of his body. So, being that I desire so little material things, my spending is paltry; it's insignificant. No matter how much money I have, I will never buy any car more expensive than perhaps a base Sonata and I will always choose to buy used for a good deal. I biked my way through all of college and grad school saving thousands in parking and gas fee. I hoard healthy food when it's on sale (<50%, often 25-30% full price) so I don't have to buy any more food until the next sale and barely any clothes all year. Even when I do, it's from Goodwill and I'll spend like $4 for a shirt or pants if I bust a pair. Then there's my $20 a month gym membership, $20 internet fee, utilities, and other than that, I really don't have any other expenditures. (Restaurant expenses go up when I have a girlfriend, though, but I still don't buy her expensive gifts because that's nursing a bad habit.) This is how I spend money regardless of my income. If a society were made of people like me, the economy would be minuscule! So in that sense, from people like me to the ones who would die for luxury or money, there's use in society for everyone.

Ideally, China would develop its own luxury lines that eclipse all foreign ones so these high spenders can give that boost to domestic consumption without bleeding Chinese money outwards, but until then, I can only tell my girlfriend, "It's not about money. I would rather buy you $3,000 worth of different Chinese bags than buy you a $1,000 foreign bag."

Thats a culture engrained in the chinese mindset. Same applies for me as a Chinese Indonesians, it is a plus to hide your wealth and only spend on necessities. Being a showoff only invite troubles

 

[Quickie]

Maybe China can increase beef imports from the us while keeping the trade deal promise and at the same time showing american allies that not only there is a price to pay by following us containment policy against China but also that americans will eat their lunch at their expense

That's probably China's idea, to begin with. It would be unfair to stop importing beef from countries that are friendly or have a neutral stance to her.

It's the best outcome that can come out of a deal that has been forced on you.

 

[Rettam Stacf]

Meh, I’m against tariffs on food stuffs since it hurts the average person more.

Not if you have multiple alternate sources.

In the case of barley, China has for the last couple of years developed Kazakhstan and Russia, and probably more, into suppliers of barley to China.

As for beef, China already have the US, Canada, Brazil and Argentina as suppliers. And even New Zealand can be an alternate to Australia.

 

[Quickie]

The reaction from Sky News Australia. (What's its relation to Sky News (UK) which is way less hawkish?)

 

[localizer]

Not if you have multiple alternate sources.

In the case of barley, China has for the last couple of years developed Kazakhstan and Russia, and probably more, into suppliers of barley to China.

As for beef, China already have the US, Canada, Brazil and Argentina as suppliers. And even New Zealand can be an alternate to Australia.

Thing is Chinese people pay a lot for food. Meat is expensive. Good quality meat hard to come by.

If it were up to me, I would unrestrict all food imports. Let the other countries subsidize Chinese diet. Money saved can be used for other things.


US foreign policy is to sanction/"starve the children" countries that don't obey. Never mess with people's food supply.

 

[manqiangrexue]

@ougoah @Dolcevita
Right, Japan and Korea don't crave luxuries like the Chinese do... and their economies are stagnant as well. When they did crave them, their economies were young and booming. It is a process of maturation how one sees wealth. When a country first becomes wealthy, those first wealthy citizens are often enamored with the newfound wealth that they, for generations, could only watch foreigners flash and be intoxicated with the concept that it is now theirs as well. It can turn into a darkness where one believes that all of one's value is expressed by his money, that those poorer are to be looked down on and those richer are to be revered. This culture will exhibit great thirst for luxury items as they are the symbols of wealth and this is where China is at now. At a later, more mature phase, this will die off slowly and showing off wealth will lose its luster like an old toy, yesterday's fad. At this point, people will develop morals and the desire to help others and no longer see money as the most important thing. This phase often coincides with a decline in economic growth as people pour less efforts into earning and spending money and more efforts into building who they are rather than what they own. Japan reached this first, then South Korea. China is not there yet. Although I very much look forward to China's progression there, I am also apprehensive about what it would do to China's economy.

A survey was conducted a few years ago asking the question, "Is money is the most important indicator of success?" Among citizens of Japan, the rate of "yes" was only 10%. In South Korea, it was 30%. In China, that rate was ~75%. That survey made me jealous of Japan for a rare time and recall why some people say that on average, Japanese wives are the best in the world.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

@ougoah @Dolcevita
Right, Japan and Korea don't crave luxuries like the Chinese do... and their economies are stagnant as well. When they did crave them, their economies were young and booming. It is a process of maturation how one sees wealth. When a country first becomes wealthy, those first wealthy citizens are often enamored with the newfound wealth that they, for generations, could only watch foreigners flash and be intoxicated with the concept that it is now theirs as well. It can turn into a darkness where one believes that all of one's value is expressed by his money, that those poorer are to be looked down on and those richer are to be revered. This culture will exhibit great thirst for luxury items as they are the symbols of wealth and this is where China is at now. At a later, more mature phase, this will die off slowly and showing off wealth will lose its luster like an old toy, yesterday's fad. At this point, people will develop morals and the desire to help others and no longer see money as the most important thing. This phase often coincides with a decline in economic growth as people pour less efforts into earning and spending money and more efforts into building who they are rather than what they own. Japan reached this first, then South Korea. China is not there yet. Although I very much look forward to China's progression there, I am also apprehensive about what it would do to China's economy.

A survey was conducted a few years ago asking the question, "Is money is the most important indicator of success?" Among citizens of Japan, the rate of "yes" was only 10%. In South Korea, it was 30%. In China, that rate was ~75%. That survey made me jealous of Japan for a rare time and recall why some people say that on average, Japanese wives are the best in the world.

Yeah, the nouveau riche mentality will pass after a while. Unfortunately, it's going to be a rather long while as China will be in the breakneck ascent phase of economic growth for at least another 15-20 years.