JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Blitzo]

The following is the timeline :
Post #4746 Deino commenting about a Block 3 maiden flight
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-475#post-581296

Subsequently posts #4747,4749-4760 (14 posts) were discussing about Block 3 maiden flight

Then Seige posted the picture (post #4766).

Yes, the rumours of JF-17 Blcok III making its maiden flight were posted on Dec 16, and the last post in that particular chain talking about Block III was on Dec 17.

Then it was followed by posts 4761 to 4765 which were not related to Block III (some being pictures of cockpits of JF-17, some being pictures of JF-17B).

And then Siege posted his picture in 4766 on 25/26 Dec that he described as "Supposedly an image of CAC testing the air-cooled AESA radar on a JF-17 Block II."

For completeness sake; By78's post was also unrelated to Block III and it's obvious his post was part of a chain that was talking about JF-17 in general, including multiple pictures of JF-17B in particular.

Neither Siege's post or By78's post could have been reasonably interpreted to specifically relate to Block III either in the context of the posts made before their own posts, or in terms of the content of their own posts.

Further, your previous post also said "On the day the news surfaced about Block 3, there were two immediate posts associated with the story" -- yet both Siege and By78's posts were many days after the initial news about Block III's maiden flight and indeed even multiple days after the last discussion of Block III in the thread in Siege's case.


I'm not trying to do a "gotcha" moment or anything, because I think this is just a genuine mistake, and people make genuine mistakes all the time and it doesn't detract from anything. There's a lot of content to consume, and organizing when everything happened relative to each other can be difficult, so I get it.
But I also am also willing to go the distance to argue that neither Siege nor By78 were suggesting that the air coolled LKF601E was the radar chosen for Block III.
If you had interpreted their posts as doing so, then I believe you were mistaken.

If you truly want to insist that you think your interpretation of their posts were reasonable for someone who had read the sequence of posts (and when they were made) carefully, well I really don't have anything else to say.

 

[by78]

For you pixel-starers, very large images.

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[Brumby]

Yes, the rumours of JF-17 Blcok III making its maiden flight were posted on Dec 16, and the last post in that particular chain talking about Block III was on Dec 17.

Then it was followed by posts 4761 to 4765 which were not related to Block III (some being pictures of cockpits of JF-17, some being pictures of JF-17B).

And then Siege posted his picture in 4766 on 25/26 Dec that he described as "Supposedly an image of CAC testing the air-cooled AESA radar on a JF-17 Block II."

For completeness sake; By78's post was also unrelated to Block III and it's obvious his post was part of a chain that was talking about JF-17 in general, including multiple pictures of JF-17B in particular.

Neither Siege's post or By78's post could have been reasonably interpreted to specifically relate to Block III either in the context of the posts made before their own posts, or in terms of the content of their own posts.

Further, your previous post also said "On the day the news surfaced about Block 3, there were two immediate posts associated with the story" -- yet both Siege and By78's posts were many days after the initial news about Block III's maiden flight and indeed even multiple days after the last discussion of Block III in the thread in Siege's case.


I'm not trying to do a "gotcha" moment or anything, because I think this is just a genuine mistake, and people make genuine mistakes all the time and it doesn't detract from anything. There's a lot of content to consume, and organizing when everything happened relative to each other can be difficult, so I get it.
But I also am also willing to go the distance to argue that neither Siege nor By78 were suggesting that the air coolled LKF601E was the radar chosen for Block III.
If you had interpreted their posts as doing so, then I believe you were mistaken.

If you truly want to insist that you think your interpretation of their posts were reasonable for someone who had read the sequence of posts (and when they were made) carefully, well I really don't have anything else to say.

Just because you used the word "reasonably" doesn't mean it is. We are discussing interpretation of intentions of individual actions.

The answer lies with the individuals who made those posts. Since they are active members, they can easily clarify the intentions of their respective post. Was their post primarily initiated by the breaking news of Block 3's maiden flight and the ongoing conversations or were they simply random post as you are insisting.

@siegecrossbow
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-477#post-582769

and

@by78

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-478#post-582893

 

[by78]

Just because you used the word "reasonably" doesn't mean it is. We are discussing interpretation of intentions of individual actions.

The answer lies with the individuals who made those posts. Since they are active members, they can easily clarify the intentions of their respective post. Was their post primarily initiated by the breaking news of Block 3's maiden flight and the ongoing conversations or were they simply random post as you are insisting.

@siegecrossbow
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-477#post-582769

and

@by78

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-478#post-582893

@Brumby, sorry bro, my post was not related to Block-III. It was to add more information on the air-cooled AESA, which I thought was intended for Block-2.

 

[Mohsin77]

It is confusing, I thought it was related to Block III too to be honest.

No need to speculate anymore though, we've had the first test flight, in the next few months we should have an official confirmation of the specs.

By the way, if anyone has a comparison sheet of the two radars available please post it here.

Even if the air-cooled version is slightly under-powered, they should probably standardize it on all Blocks.

Having 2 different radars across the Thunder fleet will be a logistical pain.

 

[Brumby]

@Brumby, sorry bro, my post was not related to Block-III. It was to add more information on the air-cooled AESA, which I thought was intended for Block-2.

Thanks for addressing the question.

As I outlined before, an air cooled AESA would be the likely option because it is easy to retrofit due to having to dispense with extensive re-plumbing.

Testing the AESA on a Block 2 would be logical once that design decision was bedded down because it allowed actual testing to commence without having to wait for Block 3 availability. It also sets up the retrofit path for Block 2

 

[Brumby]

lol no, it's not. Sigh, I've said what I need to say. So far you can't present a single argument on why your accusation is sound and dodge all my questions. All dodging and dancing around it.

Whatever you are taking I suggest you go slow on it because it doesn't look like you know what is happening.

I raised a question in response to a comment. You chose to interject but instead of addressing the question you went on a rant about a bunch of unrelated stuff. I cannot help you if you are deprived of attention. I suggest professional counselling.

 

[MastanKhan]

No, China doesn't act like America, unfortunately. The JF-17 was designed and built when China was a nobody, so it had to put up with silliness like Pakistan buying foreign electronics to stuff in it - what a joke. No longer. China is far from a nobody now, and things are going to be changed. If Pakistan wants to have Turkish targetting pods and German ECM pods and French urine cups in its stealth fighter then it can design and build that stealth fighter on its own.


TFW an American talks to me about sovereign independence and vassalage. Sovereignty, like everything else, has a price; if one is unable to afford that price, then one must settle for less than perfect sovereignty.

Hi,

You sir---are winging it left and right---. China has nowhere to go without pakistan and vice versa---. Pakistan will ask china to make whatever it wants to and if pakistan wants to compliment it with Italian or turkish or equipment from spain---then there is nothing stopping pakistan for getting those items---and china has no qualms about other than---they work their butts of and come up with a better product to compete---the KLJ radar for the JF17---.

The relation between pakistan and china is unique---there is no my way or the highway & if pakistan wants to spend chinese money to get something better from somewhere else---that is not a problem either---.

Pakistan has provided china to test the chinese equipment in a red hot war zone---pakistan also tested the aim120C in the war zone as well---only if you could have seen the reaction of the americans based at Jacobabad air base---and the reaction of the chinese at Catic---.

 

[ougoah]

Hi,

You sir---are winging it left and right---. China has nowhere to go without pakistan and vice versa---. Pakistan will ask china to make whatever it wants to and if pakistan wants to compliment it with Italian or turkish or equipment from spain---then there is nothing stopping pakistan for getting those items---and china has no qualms about other than---they work their butts of and come up with a better product to compete---the KLJ radar for the JF17---.

The relation between pakistan and china is unique---there is no my way or the highway & if pakistan wants to spend chinese money to get something better from somewhere else---that is not a problem either---.

Pakistan has provided china to test the chinese equipment in a red hot war zone---pakistan also tested the aim120C in the war zone as well---only if you could have seen the reaction of the americans based at Jacobabad air base---and the reaction of the chinese at Catic---.

Can we please stop with the China is nothing without Pakistan BS. So tired of this crap and some Pakistanis who have convinced themselves they are insiders when it comes to military stuff. PDF is the same. I've been reading the blk 3 thread there and my goodness the stupidity and arrogance often exceed the worst Bhakt chauvinism. The way some Pakistani members put down others will make the worst India chauvinists blush with humility.

Most posters are not insiders working on project xyz. Most do not know the reactions of Americans in Jacobabad and Chinese reactions in CATIC. Stop pretending you do. Most posters like that Denel clown over at PDF do not have access to top of the line Chinese EW or probably any serious Chinese avionics and EW systems. From the crap he posts, he probably isn't a real engineer at Denel, just some Islamist with a chip on his shoulder against Indians and Chinese (recently because of the Uighur thing). We must contain PDF stupidity to that forum and the mods here should not allow these sorts of posts to become acceptable in a relatively rational forum.

If anyone wants to make claims about Chinese EW being a decade behind when they worked on them (LOL!) in South Africa, they should back that shit up, at least with model types. If you have access to American and Chinese bases and engineering information, back that shit up. Too much of this I'm an insider wink wink trust me BS lurking around.

 

[plawolf]

The relation between pakistan and china is unique---there is no my way or the highway & if pakistan wants to spend chinese money to get something better from somewhere else---that is not a problem either---.

Um, I have no idea what kind of nonsense you have been reading, but this is absolutely not ok. Pakistan does not get a say on what China spend its money on.

If you are referring to Soft loans, that’s still now correct as those are not handouts, and would have been granted with very specific goals, conditions and stipulations on when and where that money could be spent, as is standard practice with such loans.

Just as it would be ludicrous for anyone to suggest Pakistan can spend American military aid money to purchase Chinese military equipment, it is equally ridiculous to suggest Pakistan can spend Chinese money on Turkish weapons. If Pakistan wants to borrow money from China to buy Turkish weapons, that’s fine, but expect to pay normal commercial interests rates on those loans.

Pakistan has provided china to test the chinese equipment in a red hot war zone---pakistan also tested the aim120C in the war zone as well---only if you could have seen the reaction of the americans based at Jacobabad air base---and the reaction of the chinese at Catic--

And now you are touching upon the real meat of the special relationship, whereby both sides share their knowledge and experience for mutual benefit.

Pakistan and China have a very special relationship, but that is based on mutual respect above all else. Thankfully both the Chinese and Pakistani governments are mature and sensible enough to not make silly demands of each other and take this special relationship for granted.

China shows Pakistan respect by not explicitly excluding any items from export as others does, but Pakistan also does China the courtesy of not taking that for granted by asking for things it knows full well China cannot possible release for any number of reasons.

It’s the same principle as telling a guest to ‘help yourself’ or to ‘make yourself at home’ and not expecting them to be packing your your brand new flat screen TV to take home with them.