Hong-Kong Protests

[manqiangrexue]

The fundamentalist cpc supporters in the posts above, asking for wiping out the civil society of hk, don't realise that this is the core difference between a Liberal and China mainland society. This is exactly what the hkers dont want in their country. Do governments in UK, France, USA or even India want thousands of protestor on their streets, disrupting traffic and being a nuisance? No. But that's the basis of a Liberal society.
Don't lose sight of what started this agitation. Hkers don't want to be tried in China with its opaque, executive controlled courts. Imagine a powerful corrupt communist party guy wants to target you for his personal gain and you have no recourse to the courts ? In contrast see the HSR between Mumbai and ahmedabad, land acquisition is still pending after 3 years as local poor villagers are not all convinced to sell their land. As a upper middle class Indian, I would love a nice shiny hsr in India but its not happening until the courts and landowners are in the same line.
Democracy is not convenient.

They are afraid to go to court? Why do they believe they will go to court? They are scared of a court that won't let them use loopholes to escape? LOL What kind of preemptive criminal strategy is this? Why am I not afraid that the CCP will arrest me and find me guilty of anything? Why are all my friends not worried about that? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. That's why.

This agitation was started by the British when they annexed Hong Kong. Hong Kong should be like every other Chinese city, no difference at all.

Your courts' inefficiencies are your example to me for why democracy is good? Democracy is good because it's been 3 years and you can't get a train project started while China can build a train station and lay its tracks in 6 hours? Hey man, don't go into marketing. That is the least convincing sales pitch I've ever heard. And India is the last country you should be using as an example of democracy. India and China have roughly the same population, our peoples share the same values of wealth through hard work and education, we started at roughly the same point (India was actually higher after WWII at the time the CCP was founded), and today, there is nothing in India that can even start to compare to China. Actually, I have high regards for Indians because in the US, Indians are one of the very very few groups of people who can compete against the Chinese in the STEM subjects, but when our countries compete, India cannot even make it to the same arena. Why? Because the British left you with democracy and it poisoned you everyday even now. China rejected it, made our own system, and we are vaunted as the greatest economic miracle in human history.

 

[AssassinsMace]

The fundamentalist cpc supporters in the posts above, asking for wiping out the civil society of hk, don't realise that this is the core difference between a Liberal and China mainland society. This is exactly what the hkers dont want in their country. Do governments in UK, France, USA or even India want thousands of protestor on their streets, disrupting traffic and being a nuisance? No. But that's the basis of a Liberal society.
Don't lose sight of what started this agitation. Hkers don't want to be tried in China with its opaque, executive controlled courts. Imagine a powerful corrupt communist party guy wants to target you for his personal gain and you have no recourse to the courts ? In contrast see the HSR between Mumbai and ahmedabad, land acquisition is still pending after 3 years as local poor villagers are not all convinced to sell their land. As a upper middle class Indian, I would love a nice shiny hsr in India but its not happening until the courts and landowners are in the same line.
Democracy is not convenient.

India ain't liberal. You want me to go through the list of what's wrong with India? Just be in denial of events in India happening right now... Maybe the Chinese can claim they're liberal too because that's all what it seem to take. In the US the right wing associates liberals with communism. China must be liberal. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

 

[solarz]

The fundamentalist cpc supporters in the posts above, asking for wiping out the civil society of hk, don't realise that this is the core difference between a Liberal and China mainland society. This is exactly what the hkers dont want in their country. Do governments in UK, France, USA or even India want thousands of protestor on their streets, disrupting traffic and being a nuisance? No. But that's the basis of a Liberal society.
Don't lose sight of what started this agitation. Hkers don't want to be tried in China with its opaque, executive controlled courts. Imagine a powerful corrupt communist party guy wants to target you for his personal gain and you have no recourse to the courts ? In contrast see the HSR between Mumbai and ahmedabad, land acquisition is still pending after 3 years as local poor villagers are not all convinced to sell their land. As a upper middle class Indian, I would love a nice shiny hsr in India but its not happening until the courts and landowners are in the same line.
Democracy is not convenient.

HK is certainly not a civil society right now.

I'm guessing you don't live there on a permanent basis.

 

[AssassinsMace]

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Look... more hypocrites whining about liberal values like freedom of speech while calling for a boycott of the Mulan movie because they didn't like the actor's stance on Hong Kong...

 

[Pika]

A must read about Carrie Lam. She had a private conversation with business leaders that got leaked.

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These parts about leadership in Beijing caught my eye.

Lam suggested that Beijing had not yet reached a turning point. She said Beijing had not imposed any deadline for ending the crisis ahead of National Day celebrations scheduled for October 1. And she said China had “absolutely no plan” to deploy People’s Liberation Army troops on Hong Kong streets.

Lam told the meeting that the leadership in Beijing was aware of the potential damage to China’s reputation that would arise from sending troops into Hong Kong to quell the protests.

“They know that the price would be too huge to pay,” she said.

“They care about the country’s international profile,” she said. “It has taken China a long time to build up to that sort of international profile and to have some say, not only being a big economy but a responsible big economy, so to forsake all those positive developments is clearly not on their agenda.”

But she said China was “willing to play long” to ride out the unrest, even if it meant economic pain for the city, including a drop in tourism and losing out on capital inflows such as initial public offerings.

It seems that self-imposed October 1st deadline that so many experts in the West were claiming was Beijing timeline to end these protests was false. Just like the trade war, Xi is playing the long game; to wait out these protesters. This once again proves how China is (and has always historically being) very patient.

 

[maint1234]

A must read about Carrie Lam. She had a private conversation with business leaders that got leaked.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These parts about leadership in Beijing caught my eye.

Lam suggested that Beijing had not yet reached a turning point. She said Beijing had not imposed any deadline for ending the crisis ahead of National Day celebrations scheduled for October 1. And she said China had “absolutely no plan” to deploy People’s Liberation Army troops on Hong Kong streets.

Lam told the meeting that the leadership in Beijing was aware of the potential damage to China’s reputation that would arise from sending troops into Hong Kong to quell the protests.

“They know that the price would be too huge to pay,” she said.

“They care about the country’s international profile,” she said. “It has taken China a long time to build up to that sort of international profile and to have some say, not only being a big economy but a responsible big economy, so to forsake all those positive developments is clearly not on their agenda.”

But she said China was “willing to play long” to ride out the unrest, even if it meant economic pain for the city, including a drop in tourism and losing out on capital inflows such as initial public offerings.

It seems that self-imposed October 1st deadline that so many experts in the West were claiming was Beijing timeline to end these protests was false. Just like the trade war, Xi is playing the long game; to wait out these protesters. This once again proves how China is (and has always historically being) very patient.

Very conveniently leaked conversation which shows Chinese government in a good noble light. Fools no one.
As per the 2 systems rule, China has no locus standi in the internal matters of Hong Kong. They aren't doing anyone a favour by following the law.
China has to eventually bow before the democratic aspirations of the people of Hong Kong and withdraw the proposal.
And for all the economic success of China, its the people's choice whether they want to live like pet dogs or free men. Hong Kongers are rejecting the former.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Very conveniently leaked conversation which shows Chinese government in a good noble light. Fools no one.

Noble? I was thinking this leak puts Beijing in a terrible light as it will embolden further terrorism in Hong Kong. These thugs have shown that they will only fight when they know the other side will not hit back, but cower when they are shown force.

As per the 2 systems rule, China has no locus standi in the internal matters of Hong Kong. They aren't doing anyone a favour by following the law.

What law? You mean only Donald Trump can pull out of agreements that previous administrations signed? China has declared that it is bound by no treaties to Britain for its return of property theft and the British have indicated that they understand China's stance.

China has to eventually bow before the democratic aspirations of the people of Hong Kong and withdraw the proposal.

China is the king of never bowing to democracy. (Only India bows to the form of government that enslaved it.) Hong Kong will never have democracy, and when this matter is at an end, whether it be in the next week or 2047, which is up to Beijing alone, Hong Kong will join the PRC as a very regular territory. Believe me, neither you nor I will live to ever see democracy fester in China and if you disagree, that is because of your ignorance on China. But you can learn the hard way and wait longingly for it... just like every brainwashed Westerner who has waited for decades with never a sliver of true hope LOL

And for all the economic success of China, its the people's choice whether they want to live like pet dogs or free men. Hong Kongers are rejecting the former.

Pet dogs would be to become a democratic ally of the US, which was the dream of Chiang KaiShek before they were defeated by Mao Zedong's patriots. Free men in China make sacrifices and fight alongside the CCP for China to become strong. Only Indians confuse discipline with lack of freedom and then their whole country ends up living like dogs biting at each other and never making progress, all done to be brainlessly loyal in guarding democracy because it was left to them by their eternal God and Master, Great Britain! LOL Very good pet dogs indeed...

 

[Jura The idiot]

now I read
Hong Kong protests: Carrie Lam insists she has never offered to resign, rejects suggestion Beijing refuses to let her quit

• City leader says it is her decision to remain in post so she can tackle protest crisis
• In leaked recording, chief executive appeared to tell closed-door meeting she would step down if she had the choice

Updated: 12:10pm, 3 Sep, 2019

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Hong Kong’s embattled leader has insisted she never offered to resign and rejected suggestions that Beijing was stopping her from doing so, saying it was her choice to stay as she wanted to solve the city’s ongoing problems.

Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor was speaking a day after the leaking of an audio recording, suggesting she had said in a closed-door meeting she would quit given the choice, for causing “unforgivable havoc” to the city.

Hong Kong has been gripped by mass protests triggered by the now-shelved extradition bill since June. Demonstrations have run for 13 consecutive weekends, and 1,117 protesters had been arrested.

Before her weekly Executive Council meeting, Lam was asked if Beijing was preventing her from stepping down.

“About resignation, I said on several occasions previously and also affirmed by my colleagues in the Chief Executive’s Office in response to media enquiries that throughout this period ... I have never tendered a resignation to the central people’s government,” she insisted.

“I have not even contemplated discussing resignation with the central people’s government. The choice of not resigning is my own choice.”

Lam said that in the recording she was simply trying to explain that resignation might be an easy option.

“But I told myself repeatedly in the last three months that I and my team should stay on to help Hong Kong, to help Hong Kong in a very difficult situation, and to serve the people of Hong Kong,” she said.

“I had not given myself the choice to take an easier path and that is to leave. I’d rather stay on and walk this path together with my team and with the people of Hong Kong.”

Anti-government anger sparked by the

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, which would have allowed criminal suspects to be sent to jurisdictions including mainland China, has fuelled months of protests in Hong Kong.

Demonstrators have five main demands for Lam, including formally withdrawing the bill, establishing a commission of inquiry to investigate police conduct and and restarting the city’s stalled political reform process.

the last paragraph contains what I asked perhaps two weeks ago and nobody answered

OK searched "demand" to find
Aug 20, 2019

let me ask the following:

1. technically, is
   
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   an organizer of the current Hong Kong protests (LOL please don't give me the CIA now)? and
2. has the organizer presented list of demands and if so, what would be the link to English version

 

[Brumby]

Hong Kong protests: Carrie Lam denies she considered resigning

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Hong Kong’s embattled leader Carrie Lam has said that she has never offered to step down, a day after an audio recording emerged of her saying

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In a press conference on Tuesday, Lam did not deny veracity of the audio, but told reporters: “I have never tendered resignation to the central people’s government. I have not even contemplated tendering resignation ... The choice of not resigning is my own choice.” She added: “The reason being I believe I can lead my team to come out of this impasse.”

Her comments came less than 24 hours after an audio recording, obtained by Reuters, was leaked. In it, the chief executive can be heard saying she was “very, very limited” in how her government could respond to the mass protests that began in June over a proposal to allow extradition to mainland China.

The remarks suggested Beijing has constrained the

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government’s response to months of mass protests, plunging the semi-autonomous territory into its worst political crisis since it was returned to Chinese control in 1997.

 

[Jura The idiot]

GlobalTimes now (

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):
Young traitors to ruin themselves
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/9/2 22:08:40

Two young leaders of violent protests in Hong Kong, Joshua Wong Chi-fung and Alex Chow Yong-kang, published an article in The New York Times on Saturday, urging US legislators to vote on the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019, which would "give the president of the United States the power to penalize Chinese officials who interfere in Hong Kong affairs."

They are proactively seeking refuge with their US master, calling the "resistance movement" in Hong Kong "a critical frontline battle against the authoritarian Chinese Communist Party in Beijing."

Rioters like Wong are the new generation of traitors. They are frenziedly staking Hong Kong's future on a final bet for the interests of their small group. But be it street violence, blocking the airport, vandalizing the Hong Kong Legislative Council building or insulting the Chinese national flag and emblem, the framework of the "one country, two systems" principle has not been shaken at all. Therefore, like all traitors in history, they are clinging tightly to external forces and treat the latter as their way out.

The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act was introduced by US senators in June 2019, requiring the US secretary of state to "annually certify to Congress… whether Hong Kong is sufficiently autonomous to justify special treatment by the United States for bilateral agreements and programs" including whether Hong Kong can retain the status of a "separate customs territory," and entitling the US government to impose sanctions on Chinese officials who "violate" relevant regulations.

It is a hegemonic bill that can be used to maliciously interfere in China's internal affairs. They believe China-US relations will be impacted once the act is adopted and implemented.

Under the existing US-Hong Kong Policy Act, a 1992 act enacted by the US Congress, US preferential treatment for Hong Kong in economic, trade and finance are by no means a gift. Such treatment is beneficial to Hong Kong as well as the Chinese mainland, but also favors the US and many parties' interests.

Once the US withdraws its special treatment, the development of Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland will be affected to some extent, but China, which includes the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR), has the ability to adjust. China's destiny is not in the hands of the US. There is no room for the US to manipulate China's fate.

The US cannot even win the trade war with China. Being traitors apparently comes with less benefits but higher risks.

Wong and Chow asked the US to sanction their home city, Hong Kong. Whatever their reasons are, such villainy will be punished. The traitors showed the US their determination to be "martyrs."

But Washington is full of geopolitical calculations vis-a-vis Beijing as well as Hong Kong SAR. This made their show of "loyalty" toward the US even more ridiculous.

The new generation of traitors is betting that Americans will do so, and that China cannot afford the chaos. Thus, they simply do not hesitate to ask the US to destroy Hong Kong.

These people have never seen what China has done to resist the pressure from the outside. They have no idea of China's power and will as an emerging country.

Rioters like Wong and Chow have made a tragic choice by using personal frenzy to challenge the general trend of China's rise. In the end, they will only suffer a complete loss.