055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Tam]

052D doesn't have IEPS. All those power sources you listed are directly attached to the propeller shafts. It needs seperate power generators, just like the Burkes.

You don't need IEPS and I don't see what's wrong in attaching them to propeller shafts. The 052 hull was designed anyway old school back in the 1990s, long before they might have the ambition of using IEPS. All these would have be determined and designed into the ship before the steel is cut.

Furthermore if the ship's radars does not have any CWI capability that would require 100% duty cycle, your power requirements are going to be less taxing.

A C-band AESA with about 5,000 elements per face would have to be much smaller than what's on the 052C/D right now but would have a similar cost and power density. If the ship is designed like that, it would lack a general purpose S-band search radar, and I would need to put a Type 382 "Front Plate" on top of the mast as the search radar, get rid of the Type 517 Yagis on the back and put the Type 364 sea skimmer spotting radar there. This can make an interesting fan designed what if PLAN destroyer.

 

[Max Demian]

You don't need IEPS and I don't see what's wrong in attaching them to propeller shafts. The 052 hull was designed anyway old school back in the 1990s, long before they might have the ambition of using IEPS. All these would have be determined and designed into the ship before the steel is cut.

By design the QC-280 GTs and diesel engines are used solely for propulsion. It's a non trivial design change to make them multipurpose and you essentially end up with IEPS. Therefore, the electric power has to come from the standalone generators, just like it is on the Type 055.

As an aside, the new Flight II Burkes under construction are getting a hybrid drive system, where they are able to derive propulsion from the GT power generators when cruising at low speed. You could theoretically design that to operate in reverse and generate electrical power, but I am not aware of such systems.

 

[Max Demian]

delete

 

[Tam]

By design the QC-280 GTs and diesel engines are used solely for propulsion. It's a non trivial design change to make them multipurpose and you essentially end up with IEPS. Therefore, the electric power has to come from the standalone generators, just like it is on the Type 055.

I don't think I have heard of the Type 055 having stand alone generators. If they do, who powers them? I was in the impression these generators are powered off from the four main GTs it has.

GT25000 and MTU 956 engines are meant to drive propulsion but a certain percentage of output has to be taken for electricity through an alternator. Usually about 85% is propulsion and 15% for electricity. For a ship with 64MW total output of the engines, that would be 9.6MW. For the Type 055 with a total output of 112MW, that would be 16.8MW. I am also not sure, and don't think that QC280 is all about propulsion only.

I also don't think the QC280 name is correct.

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The engine is described as both marine drive and electricity.

Here you go, there is a catalog of gas turbines engines you can choose from.

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As an aside, the new Flight II Burkes under construction are getting a hybrid drive system, where they are able to derive propulsion from the GT power generators when cruising at low speed. You could theoretically design that to operate in reverse and generate electrical power, but I am not aware of such systems.

You mean Flight IIA. It means they have electric motors that are connected to the propeller shafts.

Flight I and II, and all the Ticos doesn't have and doesn't need a hybrid drive system to power SPY-1. In the case of Flight IIA, the percentage or output of power into electrical generation is higher than previous ships in order to be able to power the GaN based SPY-6. I don't think Ticos, Flight I and II ABs will ever have the SPY-6 upgrade.

 

[Appix]

Any idea when the first Type 055 will be commissioned?

 

[Biscuits]

Any idea when the first Type 055 will be commissioned?

Yeah, 5 days ago.

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[Max Demian]

I don't think I have heard of the Type 055 having stand alone generators. If they do, who powers them? I was in the impression these generators are powered off from the four main GTs it has.

GT25000 and MTU 956 engines are meant to drive propulsion but a certain percentage of output has to be taken for electricity through an alternator. Usually about 85% is propulsion and 15% for electricity. For a ship with 64MW total output of the engines, that would be 9.6MW. For the Type 055 with a total output of 112MW, that would be 16.8MW. I am also not sure, and don't think that QC280 is all about propulsion only.

I also don't think the QC280 name is correct.

Well, if we take the Arleigh Burke as an example, the power generators come with their own gas turbines as prime movers. This link from Rolls Royce goes into some detail:

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It even states "They [the generators] are a critical piece of equipment providing all electrical power for both onboard hotel services, radars and combat equipment". I took from this that there are no alternators attached to the main propulsion turbines.

There were some infographics displayed in a CCTV video from 2017 that showed the power generators of Type 055 residing in separate bulkheads from the propulsion GTs. That's enough evidence to me to conclude that they too come with standalone prime movers, just like on the Arleigh Burke. There's an article from Henry Kahn that goes into some speculation what the potential power generation might be:

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Flight I and II, and all the Ticos doesn't have and doesn't need a hybrid drive system to power SPY-1. In the case of Flight IIA, the percentage or output of power into electrical generation is higher than previous ships in order to be able to power the GaN based SPY-6. I don't think Ticos, Flight I and II ABs will ever have the SPY-6 upgrade.

My understanding was that the purpose of the hybrid drive was to reduce fuel consumption, as it would allow shutting some (or all?) propulsion turbines when cruising at low speeds. The Flight IIIs are getting new and 33% more powerful power generators to accommodate the SPY-6, but are not getting the hybrid drive (not enough juice left with SPY-6?). The Flight IIAs will get a scaled down version of the SPY-6 (24 in lieu of 37 RMAs), so they might not need a power upgrade.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I don't think I have heard of the Type 055 having stand alone generators. If they do, who powers them? I was in the impression these generators are powered off from the four main GTs it has.

GT25000 and MTU 956 engines are meant to drive propulsion but a certain percentage of output has to be taken for electricity through an alternator. Usually about 85% is propulsion and 15% for electricity. For a ship with 64MW total output of the engines, that would be 9.6MW. For the Type 055 with a total output of 112MW, that would be 16.8MW. I am also not sure, and don't think that QC280 is all about propulsion only.

I also don't think the QC280 name is correct.

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The engine is described as both marine drive and electricity.

Here you go, there is a catalog of gas turbines engines you can choose from.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You mean Flight IIA. It means they have electric motors that are connected to the propeller shafts.

Flight I and II, and all the Ticos doesn't have and doesn't need a hybrid drive system to power SPY-1. In the case of Flight IIA, the percentage or output of power into electrical generation is higher than previous ships in order to be able to power the GaN based SPY-6. I don't think Ticos, Flight I and II ABs will ever have the SPY-6 upgrade.

Exactly the gas turbine is not connected directly to the propeller shaft. Instead it goes thru series of gear and clutches that can be connected to generator set
Here is set up for 2 speed propeller One attached to big GT for high speed and on parallel attach to smaller turbine for low speed . The reason is efficiency Gas Turbine waste a lot of energy if it not run at full speed So having 2 sizes of GT allow it always to run at max speed.

Or altenative you can connect it to Generator and take some of the load by producing electricity

 

[Max Demian]

Continuation of my post https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/type-055-ddg-large-destroyer-thread.t6480/page-681#post-552122

One of the early research studies on the hybrid drive (

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) states in the abstract "... bi‐directional power flow from this auxiliary electric drive will provide additional generation capacity for ship service loads at a modest additional cost". Therefore, it could also serve to augment the power generation as Tam was suggesting. That's sort of hinted in the Navy promo video:

 

[Jura The idiot]

Continuation of my post https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/type-055-ddg-large-destroyer-thread.t6480/page-681#post-552122

One of the early research studies on the hybrid drive (

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) states in the abstract ...

... whatever:
Navy Ditches Its Plan To Upgrade 34 Destroyers With Hybrid Electric Drives

March 14, 2018

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