China needs to be a responsible power, that's to prevent western led regime change under SCO

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
With this type of thinking, wait till Iran also have its regime change propped up by the West and then China will know the true meaning of that!

They call Chinese goons, if the CCP can't even achieve the little thing then they're pretty shitty goons.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's not about greed, simply to get back what others owned you. How can you say that's greed??
Get back what's yours is your rights, not greed.

Guiado propped by US, and if he in power , US will call the shot and China interests will be severely harmed and will lose big.

What China acting responsible is to deny US evil scheme, it knows China and Russia have substantial investment in Venezuela therefore, by propped up a new regime, it can wrestle away and control the Venezuela oil, and make China and Russia lose big.

China will act as the new balance.

Look at what happened when India backed the new President in Sri Lanka, and he won against the incumbent who was seen as pro-China.

Soon enough, the financial debts pushed the new Sri Lanka President into working with China.

I think China does have to stay neutral in Venuezuela.
China is deeply disappointed with the economic chaos that Maduro/Chavez presided over, which has made many in Venezuela very angry.
But China is also not particularly happy if there is a US-backed coup.

Remember the Venezuelan debts are secured by oil exports, so China does have leverage, whoever is in charge.
And it's in China's interest to see a stable Venezuela, that is not in economic chaos where people don't have enough to eat.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Lol stealing the money would be suicide. It’s not attached to Maduro, it’s attached to the Venezuelan state. Guaido or Maduro, they’re gonna pay it.

Washington might give arms support, but Beijing holds all the keys to *any* form of prosperity Venezuela could achieve.

That’s why Guaido is trying to open diplomatic channel with China and promised that deals would remain in effect while marketing himself as less corrupt and more efficient than Maduro. He knows that if he can convince China that he’s better business than Maduro, then Maduro won’t stand a chance.

And conversely, if he was stupid enough to give a bad business vibe, he could never rule Venezuela even if he manages a coup.

Beijing would crush the country with sanctions and force infrastructure handovers. It would be a worse crisis for Venezuelans than under Maduro, and everyone will blame Guaido for it. His days would be numbered even if he’s on the throne.

Just because he’s illegitimate doesn’t mean he’s stupid.

From his statements up to now, it appears that he’s trying to give an even better deal in order to make Beijing overlook his legitimacy.

I could see Xi playing along. Maybe it’s not morally right but it’s what would lead to more money and less risks taken.

Morally, I think the question is what is the best for the people of Venezuela?

My opinion is that Guaido is a better option, so China should be prepared or eager to work with him
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
No really. If you think Guaido can't or won't renege Chinese debt you are quite mistaken. His refineries are in the USA. His main oil export client is the USA. The USA is one of the world's major exporters of food. They put nearly all other food suppliers on the region on their side embargoing Venezuela. Do the math. Guaido will renege the debt. Just like Ukraine does not pay for Russian gas.

They will kick out Chinese and Russian investors and put US and European investors on their place.
They will claim the deals were illegitimate. Heck, they just confiscated Venezuelan state assets in wholly illegal fashion.

Also you have been spoon fed too much with Western propaganda. Fact is there are more people on Maduro's side than the MSM likes to show.
i.e. the people living in government housing which were poorly treated in the previous regime. Why do you think Chavez even got there in the first place?
Why do you think the USA had to put 7 military bases in Colombia and topple the left-aligned government of Brazil before they went on this charade?

A real military intervention is not possible, but letting Venezuela collapse to outside pressure without making any kind of move. It is just dumb.
Next time it might be Iran or North Korea. Most likely Iran.

Just export Russian medicine to Venezuela and South African food to Venezuela under a barter agreement.
That is enough to keep a lid on things and force the US to spend massive military resources or give up.

Venezuela has 120,000 active troops and active conscription for 30 months. They won't be easy to chew up if they have proper supply.
Why do you think the USA has been starving them out since 2015?

An UN observer actually described their situation as medieval siege warfare.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
@gelgoog

Aside from the fact he’s explicitly promised to keep the deals with China and is trying to get recognition from China, how would he go about facing the consequences?

Firstly, US is not their military ally. China can send gunboats there and take whatever they need to fulfil the debt without US interference, since they have zero casus belli to defend a sovereign power stealing from another.

Secondly, even the US has major difficulty shrugging off a half hearted economical offensive from China. How in earth would Venezuela with it’s already super fragile economy handle a hit like that?

With every coup, the US will be wasting resources. When (if) the PLA gets a non self defense budget, China wouldn’t even need to worry about coups anywhere as they could send the fleet to chase off the USN.

But achieving that budget will take political will. If anything, these coups and violent tactics only serve to increase the threat perception of the US, which provides the political will.

It would have been impossible to talk increased recruitment in the Hu era with a relatively peaceful US. Yet now we are seeing rumors of a major buildup.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
With this type of thinking, wait till Iran also have its regime change propped up by the West and then China will know the true meaning of that!
Assuming if the US could ever formulate any type of serious conspiracy in Iran. Less anyone had forget it was the US backed coup back in the 1950s that propped the Shah to power, which in turn formulated unrest and dissatisfaction which lead to the 1977 Iranian Revolution. All in all which resulted in a spectacular backlash in Iranian-US relationship.
A Chinese back intervention for Maduro will most likely result in the same, with pent up unrest and dissatisfaction reaching a boiling point somewhere in the near future.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Assuming if the US could ever formulate any type of serious conspiracy in Iran. Less anyone had forget it was the US backed coup back in the 1950s that propped the Shah to power, which in turn formulated unrest and dissatisfaction which lead to the 1977 Iranian Revolution. All in all which resulted in a spectacular backlash in Iranian-US relationship.
A Chinese back intervention for Maduro will most likely result in the same, with pent up unrest and dissatisfaction reaching a boiling point somewhere in the near future.

That was 50 years ago. Were it not for Iran being more self-sufficient than a country like Venezuela do you really think there wouldn't be a coup?
Just watch what happened here. Some idiot is claiming to be the President when he did not even run for office!
 
Responsible power doesn't mean sending some UN troops here and there for easy tasks but to preserve world peace through active means of stopping led western led regime changes worldwide under SCO framework.

Right now China is Not a responsible military power, it doesn't strive to keep peace worldwide.It doesn't get involved in Syria and Venezuela directly.

If China already became a responsible military power, it would dispatch a carrier strike group and amphibious ship carrying marines along with Russian and Iranian, central asia troops to Venezuela to preserve peace there.

Right now, Venezuela under tremendous pressure piled on by western countries.

Syria is war torn after 7 years of fighting. Same with Iraq.

If China becomes a responsible power and active engage in those trouble areas under SCO Shanghai Cooperation Organization, peae can quickly restore there.

Hopefully, China can one day become a responsible military power

This is projection onto China of colonialist, euphemistically "imperial", expectations and behavior, not to mention to an extreme and unrealistic degree that is laughable. I suggest you go back and do some homework to learn about what is happening in Venezuela, the actual military capabilities of the various countries, and many aspects of the international political picture. China's principle of non-intervention is one of its most attractive and powerful policies in its ascension in the world order.
 
...

If China already became a responsible military power, it would dispatch a carrier strike group and amphibious ship carrying marines along with Russian and Iranian, central asia troops to Venezuela to preserve peace there.

...
what's "central asia troops", Taliban?
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
This is projection onto China of colonialist, euphemistically "imperial", expectations and behavior, not to mention to an extreme and unrealistic degree that is laughable. I suggest you go back and do some homework to learn about what is happening in Venezuela, the actual military capabilities of the various countries, and many aspects of the international political picture. China's principle of non-intervention is one of its most attractive and powerful policies in its ascension in the world order.

What you talking about??
Lol, both Russian and China regretted big time for doing not enough in Lybia. China lost all its investment in Lybia. That's why China and Russia remedied their approach in Syria. Although China didn't send troops to Syria but it actively sent weapons and blocking all Western agendas against Syria in UN. It learned a painful lesson in Lybia for losing all its it's investment there.
Also myanmar China sent heavy weapons to ethnic Chinese and ethnic groups in Shan States to keep the Myanmar government at bay.

Nonintervenist most attractive policy my foot.

The least China can do in Venezuela situation is sent more weapons to maduro. Sniper rifles and night vision goggles would come in handy for Venezulean troops to fight guerilla warfares against US troops. And more snipers can take out those local troublemakers and leaders.

The future trend is China will be more active and intervenist in its approach as it expand its blue water Navy. That's the future trend!
 
Last edited:
Top