J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Dizasta1]

It seems that the number missiles carried by the J-20s is turning out to be something of a hot topic. The way I see it, the design and dimensions of the J-20s were intended for it to not only carry a larger payload, but also to have greater range. The best part, and this is in no uncertain terms, is that China will be giving PLAAF something that USAF couldn't get and that is a heck of a lot more J-20s than there are F-22s. So in this regard, PLAAF has the luxury of arming segments of J-20s with PL-15s, PL-12s and PL-10s.

On the subject of J-20s, I would like to have some input on the matter pertaining to the J-20's TVN engines. Once operationally readied, would China be looking to do away with the J-20's canards? As I understand it, the TVN/TVC engines negate the need for canards. Case in point, the Su-35 Flanker-E. Removal of canards on the J-20s would also substantially increase the aircraft's Low Observability. If this is not the case, then please elaborate as to why it wouldn't be.

 

[Air Force Brat]

i can't see any afterburner in those photos, unless you're referring to the last picture which shows the heat plume from the heat of the engine but that still doesn't seem to be afterburner...

edit: or are you referring to the second picture? I can see how the inside of the exhaust appears a little bit red but I"m not sure if that is afterburner let alone full afterburner... I'd expect a much bigger and more obvious trail than that, maybe with some shock diamonds

I am indeed referring to large and vigorous heat plume as he proceeds to the vertical, he is indeed in full burner, he is low, and relatively slow, each of those birds depart airshow center out a vertical window. McDonnelDouglas invented a vertical departure for F-15's referred to as "Viking One", when the factory was flying F-15's from Lambert St. Louis, they would request the "Viking One Departure" and exit the TSA at 10,000 ft...

but if you watch the flying displays as they pitch to the vertical in their display you can hear the burners engage, sounds like a "blow torch" with a very loud roaring/cracklying sound...

but no, due to the displays being in broad daylight, we don't see the fiery tail that is always evident of afterburner in low light conditions, nor do we see the shock diamonds, which are seen only under certain conditions....

So there is NO doubt these aircraft are in and out of afterburner multiple times during the flying display,, but I will concede there is no way of knowing the aircraft are in full burner, except when they exit airshow center, and then no doubt as they push to the vertical to exit the display box they are indeed in full afterburner, and when they fly out the top of the box, you can hear them de-select after burner.....

I'm very excited about the past weeks practice and flying displays at Zhuhai, they were excellent, and long awaited, we've been waiting for this since the first flight during Robert Gates visit, LOL

Its been a long time coming, but very well worth the wait!

 

[Biscuits]

It seems that the number missiles carried by the J-20s is turning out to be something of a hot topic. The way I see it, the design and dimensions of the J-20s were intended for it to not only carry a larger payload, but also to have greater range. The best part, and this is in no uncertain terms, is that China will be giving PLAAF something that USAF couldn't get and that is a heck of a lot more J-20s than there are F-22s. So in this regard, PLAAF has the luxury of arming segments of J-20s with PL-15s, PL-12s and PL-10s.

On the subject of J-20s, I would like to have some input on the matter pertaining to the J-20's TVN engines. Once operationally readied, would China be looking to do away with the J-20's canards? As I understand it, the TVN/TVC engines negate the need for canards. Case in point, the Su-35 Flanker-E. Removal of canards on the J-20s would also substantially increase the aircraft's Low Observability. If this is not the case, then please elaborate as to why it wouldn't be.

There is no telling there will be more J20s than F22s for the foreseeable future. Even an optimistic prediction would be “about as many”

Doing away with the canards would not happen. They do not take away or contribute to it’s radar signature. Like any other movable part, they are hooked up to a computer that calculates movement to prevent radar spikes while in stealth mode. It’s not different from say the rear wings on the F22.

 

[KIENCHIN]

I am indeed referring to large and vigorous heat plume as he proceeds to the vertical, he is indeed in full burner, he is low, and relatively slow, each of those birds depart airshow center out a vertical window. McDonnelDouglas invented a vertical departure for F-15's referred to as "Viking One", when the factory was flying F-15's from Lambert St. Louis, they would request the "Viking One Departure" and exit the TSA at 10,000 ft...

but if you watch the flying displays as they pitch to the vertical in their display you can hear the burners engage, sounds like a "blow torch" with a very loud roaring/cracklying sound...

but no, due to the displays being in broad daylight, we don't see the fiery tail that is always evident of afterburner in low light conditions, nor do we see the shock diamonds, which are seen only under certain conditions....

So there is NO doubt these aircraft are in and out of afterburner multiple times during the flying display,, but I will concede there is no way of knowing the aircraft are in full burner, except when they exit airshow center, and then no doubt as they push to the vertical to exit the display box they are indeed in full afterburner, and when they fly out the top of the box, you can hear them de-select after burner.....

I'm very excited about the past weeks practice and flying displays at Zhuhai, they were excellent, and long awaited, we've been waiting for this since the first flight during Robert Gates visit, LOL

Its been a long time coming, but very well worth the wait!

AFB is right, videos of the on last day, does show intermittent use of the after burner on some manoeuvres albeit very briefly and when full after burner as it goes vertical.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A J-20 fighter of the Chinese air force shows its load of long-range missiles at Airshow China in Zhuhai on Sunday.
In a Xinhua video, two J-20s screamed over the huge crowds at Airshow China with bomb bay doors open, showing four long-range missiles mounted inside. Two missiles were also mounted under the jets' wings.

Where is the facepalm emoji when you need one?

 

[ougoah]

It seems that the number missiles carried by the J-20s is turning out to be something of a hot topic. The way I see it, the design and dimensions of the J-20s were intended for it to not only carry a larger payload, but also to have greater range. The best part, and this is in no uncertain terms, is that China will be giving PLAAF something that USAF couldn't get and that is a heck of a lot more J-20s than there are F-22s. So in this regard, PLAAF has the luxury of arming segments of J-20s with PL-15s, PL-12s and PL-10s.

On the subject of J-20s, I would like to have some input on the matter pertaining to the J-20's TVN engines. Once operationally readied, would China be looking to do away with the J-20's canards? As I understand it, the TVN/TVC engines negate the need for canards. Case in point, the Su-35 Flanker-E. Removal of canards on the J-20s would also substantially increase the aircraft's Low Observability. If this is not the case, then please elaborate as to why it wouldn't be.

There is no telling there will be more J20s than F22s for the foreseeable future. Even an optimistic prediction would be “about as many”

Doing away with the canards would not happen. They do not take away or contribute to it’s radar signature. Like any other movable part, they are hooked up to a computer that calculates movement to prevent radar spikes while in stealth mode. It’s not different from say the rear wings on the F22.

It may not contribute much more than rear horizontal stabilisers but TVC can minimise deflections of canards. We'll see if WS-15 comes with TVC. It'll need to not lose much thrust and not weigh much more for it to be really worthwhile but CAC knows better than anyone since they designed the J-20. Having ventral fins probably also hurt RCS but then again F-22 has MASSIVE vertical stabilisers and F-35 has bulges all over its surface. I don't believe F-35's generation of stealth technology is as demanding of shaping as F-22's was and maybe J-20 has some of those ingredients too. Materials and electronics are pretty important these days and VLO's days are numbered anyway. Therefore there needs to be a balance between stealthiness and performance + versatility/flexibility. J-20 balances these as well so it's not all about super duper all out "stealth" although it will remain a massive advantage in many situations over most potential enemies.

 

[siegecrossbow]

On the subject of J-20s, I would like to have some input on the matter pertaining to the J-20's TVN engines. Once operationally readied, would China be looking to do away with the J-20's canards? As I understand it, the TVN/TVC engines negate the need for canards. Case in point, the Su-35 Flanker-E. Removal of canards on the J-20s would also substantially increase the aircraft's Low Observability. If this is not the case, then please elaborate as to why it wouldn't be.

That'll result in a complete revamp of the aerodynamics so it won't happen.

That said, I don't think that the USMC would've considered canards on the JAST concept if it is that bad for stealth.

 

[Deino]

In other news, I don't think this has been posted yet. 5 J-20s

View attachment 49935

allegedly taken at Foshan.

 

[Inst]

It makes more sense to ditch tailfins than canards; the canards are integral to the J-20's design and if the canards go, the wings would also need to be adjusted as they're built to be co-planar with canards. The tailfins, on the other hand, add / remove 2-4 planes to the J-20.

 

[Interstellar]

I think he's saying that everyone is eagerly awaiting footage as it will be the next big thing to be seen

the arrangement of the fins that pb posted in his pic looks bizarre

View attachment 49936

Wing folding is not naccessary since the diameter of the next-gen medium range AAM is small enough. Medium-long range AAM will be replaced by solid rocket ramjet powered ones.