JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media

[maglomanic]

In other words, you want a near J10 level plane. What is irritating is that so many pakistanese fanboys stupidly think their ideas are novel, and new, in their minds possible and easy and the Chinese and Pakistanese designers and engineers have never thought about it!

First of all it is Pakistani (Adjective) Nationality and not Pakistanese. Not every nationality has to end with 'ese'. Secondly noone is being a fan boy here except for you who some how find it his religious duty to jump in and come up with the novelst ideas like JF-17 is being turned into J-10. How many times do we need to tell you that PAF is also buying J-10 if JF-17 could be J-10 they woudln't do it. So don't lose your breath and sleep and try to calm down.

Thirdly, WHat the heck are you talking about when you say there is going to be no upgrades for JF-17. Heck look at the service life of J-7 and all it's variants. You show so much ignorance and arrogance that it's hard to see a parallel. Heck just look at the program JF-17 itself and see how much change it has incorporated all these years. CAC perfected their modular design philosphy on FC-1 right infornt of the entire world but you have got to be a real slow person to ignore it .

Answer me this.

1)What makes you think WS-13 cannot be uprated to 100 KN. If the tech base on which it was derived .i.e RD-93 is still improving why can't it?

2)Who the hell in can stop PAF from putting a better radar better avionics and improve what is already there in this regard (avionics). Have you ever talked to a PAF official or some one in the know. Do you know what they have beens aying about it? Because i do. And trust me you are in for a big rude awakening if you keep on believing that PAF is not planing future upgrades. Not just upgrades but very potent ones as well.

3)You do know that composites could be used to bring down the weight constraints and further improve the payload, TWR right? What makes you think it is impossible. And please no "it's cheap plane so noone is gonna spend more on it" crap!!!

Who are both of you? A pair of Pakistanese boys with no authority whatsoever, but that doesn't stop you from talking, does it? Do you realize how hard making an Engine is? You two are so stupid it's irritating. Any engine will take a long time to be fully certified, and mass produced. Again, I give you the example of WS10A. It took the Chinese a long time, and its still not mass produced. WS13a won't take as long, but it's a project that is very new.

And who are you? Do you know how stereotypical and closed minded your arguments sound?
Do you know what is the timeline for PAF to induct JF-17 in it's fleet? Do you know it's entirely possible to make this plane go through various upgrades until then?
Comparing WS-13a with WS-10a is like comparing J-10 with JF-17. Do you know the design philosphies of both the engines? or even both the planes before you start throwing it up to the fan so all of us have to clean after you are done?

Whatever. You take one article and you misunderstand it, and jump for joy like excited fleas.

Noone is jumping with joy here. Everyone is discussing possibilities and their technicalities. You are the only one with loads of electronic bile and stereotypical mind to go with it.
Grow up!

 

[maglomanic]

Here is an article, the only one too on net and i am sure everyone has seen it. It's about the DSI on F-16. The regime in which it was tested included speeds upto Mach 2.0.

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"The flight tests covered the entire F-16 flight envelope and achieved a maximum speed of Mach 2.0. The modified aircraft demonstrated flying qualities similar to a normal production F-16 at all angles of attack and at all angles of sideslip. Lockheed Martin test pilots performed two inflight engine restarts and 164 successful afterburner lights, with no failures. Fifty-two afterburner lights were performed during hard maneuvers. No engine stalls or anomalies occurred during the test flights.
"


It was discussed on AFM and similar remarks were made that JSF could not go Mach 2.0 because of DSI and alot of people had field's day laughing their brains out at the line of reasoning.

If anyone has technical example to prove that DSI inhibits speeds upto Mach 2.0 i will still be more than glad to acknoledge it even though we clearly have one example already.

 

[mehdi]

Maglomanic I have a question for you. Will Pakistan try to make a double engine JF-17 Thunder cause when you talk about upgrade there is a limit. In the near future it will be impossible to further upgrade the plane hence a new one based on the JF-17 Thunder will be needed. So what you think about this idea??

 

[skyhawk2005]

***********************

First of all it is Pakistani (Adjective) Nationality and not Pakistanese. Not every nationality has to end with 'ese'. Secondly noone is being a fan boy here except for you who some how find it his religious duty to jump in and come up with the novelst ideas like JF-17 is being turned into J-10. How many times do we need to tell you that PAF is also buying J-10 if JF-17 could be J-10 they woudln't do it. So don't lose your breath and sleep and try to calm down.

Thirdly, WHat the heck are you talking about when you say there is going to be no upgrades for JF-17. Heck look at the service life of J-7 and all it's variants. You show so much ignorance and arrogance that it's hard to see a parallel. Heck just look at the program JF-17 itself and see how much change it has incorporated all these years. CAC perfected their modular design philosphy on FC-1 right infornt of the entire world but you have got to be a real slow person to ignore it .

Answer me this.

1)What makes you think WS-13 cannot be uprated to 100 KN. If the tech base on which it was derived .i.e RD-93 is still improving why can't it?

2)Who the hell in can stop PAF from putting a better radar better avionics and improve what is already there in this regard (avionics). Have you ever talked to a PAF official or some one in the know. Do you know what they have beens aying about it? Because i do. And trust me you are in for a big rude awakening if you keep on believing that PAF is not planing future upgrades. Not just upgrades but very potent ones as well.

3)You do know that composites could be used to bring down the weight constraints and further improve the payload, TWR right? What makes you think it is impossible. And please no "it's cheap plane so noone is gonna spend more on it" crap!!!


And who are you? Do you know how stereotypical and closed minded your arguments sound?
Do you know what is the timeline for PAF to induct JF-17 in it's fleet? Do you know it's entirely possible to make this plane go through various upgrades until then?
Comparing WS-13a with WS-10a is like comparing J-10 with JF-17. Do you know the design philosphies of both the engines? or even both the planes before you start throwing it up to the fan so all of us have to clean after you are done?


Noone is jumping with joy here. Everyone is discussing possibilities and their technicalities. You are the only one with loads of electronic bile and stereotypical mind to go with it.
Grow up!

blah blah blah. You put words into my mouth, but I won't waste time with you.

Zergling edit: If you've got nothing useful to say except blow off a reasoned analysis with a one-liner, then stay silent.

 

[maglomanic]

Maglomanic I have a question for you. Will Pakistan try to make a double engine JF-17 Thunder cause when you talk about upgrade there is a limit. In the near future it will be impossible to further upgrade the plane hence a new one based on the JF-17 Thunder will be needed. So what you think about this idea??

When i say upgrades i don't mean a totally redsign that would change the basic philosphy of thsi fighter. Making it twin engine serves no purpose at all. And yes there is a limit to which you want to spend on upgrades. Better Avionics, imporving thrust, improving payloads, improving field's performance is a very doable thing and *ALL* aircraft makers have done it based on the success and demand of the design. F-16s,F-15s,Flankers,Fulcurums,J-7s and many more.
All that does is make this aircraft more competetive in it's own role. It's not like anyone would want 7000 kg of payload on JF-17. But it could ceratinly allow more flexiblity to PAF across the board if it is upped from it's current 3800Kg.
Similarly when people talk about super cruise on JF-17, just ignore them.But a better thurst to weight ratio is highly desirable and doable. F-16s have benfitted from increase in thurst and increased their payload.

In the bigger scheme of things, it's all interconnected and partial improvements in all of these could result in better over all performance. That should not be taken as a *NOVEL* idea on anyone's part. It has precedent and nothing new there.

I must say, Pakistanese are not much different from Indians when it comes to fantasizing. Indians and Pakistanese do exactly the same thing: Speculate, and Fantasize endlessly.


Pakistanese are ridiculous!

Thanks for showing your true colors for everyone to see.

There is no way the Pakistan can modify the JF17 to a twin engine design without major help from outside.

You are actually the first person to even deem it doable and practical (albioet with outside help). Goes on to show the depth of thinking you have. Learn from all the people who atleast try to reason and think thorugh cost benefit , practicality before making comments like these.

 

[pshamim]

Skyhawk,
Where the hell you came up with twin engines for JF-17? This is the first time I have seen some one utter those words.
Looks like you are fantasizing now while blaming the Pakistanis for the same. No Pakistanis have even said upgrading JF-17 to twin engines.

I feel that you are naturally biased. A quick review of your previous posts shows your bias towards JF-17, Chinese and Pakistanis. You have tried to bad-mouth both Pakistan and China.

Kindly stop these biased posts, and please be a responsible poster so we can all enjoy them and have an intelligent discussion.

 

[maglomanic]

*snip* (No need to keep the fire burning)

Can someone teach this kid some sense?
Do you even know who you are talking to? Pshamim is ex-PAF fighter pilot. He was part of Pakistan's F-16 deal (evaluation and purchase).

 

[The_Zergling]

Alright folks, things are moving in an undesirable direction. Refrain from making derogatory comments about any nationality, and if you have nothing to contribute to a discussion, then sit back and lurk. There are no prizes for simply racking up post counts. pshamin has the right idea:

Kindly stop these biased posts, and please be a responsible poster so we can all enjoy them and have an intelligent discussion.

 

[mehdi]

Thanks for the reply. Maglomanic there is another side of Pakistani Air Force that I would like you to comment on:

Since Pakistan is going to buy the JF-17 Thunder and also coproduce it in Pakistan what is the reason that they also bought the J-10 can you try to explain what was the reason for this purchase.

Secondly a brief comment on each plane role in PAF would also help.

Thanks.

 

[tphuang]

Here is an article, the only one too on net and i am sure everyone has seen it. It's about the DSI on F-16. The regime in which it was tested included speeds upto Mach 2.0.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"The flight tests covered the entire F-16 flight envelope and achieved a maximum speed of Mach 2.0. The modified aircraft demonstrated flying qualities similar to a normal production F-16 at all angles of attack and at all angles of sideslip. Lockheed Martin test pilots performed two inflight engine restarts and 164 successful afterburner lights, with no failures. Fifty-two afterburner lights were performed during hard maneuvers. No engine stalls or anomalies occurred during the test flights.
"

It was discussed on AFM and similar remarks were made that JSF could not go Mach 2.0 because of DSI and alot of people had field's day laughing their brains out at the line of reasoning.

If anyone has technical example to prove that DSI inhibits speeds upto Mach 2.0 i will still be more than glad to acknoledge it even though we clearly have one example already.

F-16 - mach 2.0? Maybe when it's flying with no payload. F-16 really struggles reaching that kind of speed. As for JF-17, it will struggle too, because it uses a fixed inlet like F-16 and F-35. If you look at the fighters that can reach extremely high mach speed, they can all fly at really high altitude and use variable inlet. JF-17 does not display any of those traits. I remember reading how the variable inlet on J-10 allows J-10 to maintain thrust level at high supersonic speed. As I mentionned, unless JF-17 wants to get a complex intake like that of J-10, it's not going to touch mach2.0 anytime soon.

But as for this converting JF-17 to J-10 stuff, I think this kind of thought does get mentionned quite a bit on PDF. And yes, I have definitely read stuff about converting JF-17 to use two engines. You have to think about the cost involved in this development and what extra development would do to the per unit cost of the plane. JF-17's flight performance has pretty much been set after prototype 04-06. I don't see much more improvement in flight performance after the airframe is already finalized. If current generation plane is any indication, improved multirole capability, increased payload and improved avionics seem to be where upgrades are going to.