Trade War with China

[manqiangrexue]

He's saying the problem is cultural. Chinese in the US can and often do find success because they aren't suffering from Communism. At least this is how I've interpreted it. He's making a case for the trade war presumably because it threatens American dominance due to Chinese Communists stealing the technologies and know-how without spending the efforts (that's if the people can even innovate at all). All the while eroding American quality of life through the billions allegedly lost from unfair trade practices between the two nations. Chinese piggyback on American inventions and tech. That's the gist of what I think is being expressed. Possibly expressed poorly to an audience that is overwhelmingly pro China. These allegations are only partly true and the relationship is more complex than it is made out to be. e.g. it's not fair to say Germany possesses the best automotive engineers and the credit can only go to German people, all while ignoring the possible fact that 80% of their profits come from foreign sources. These sources being the driving force behind the success. Point is these things are difficult subjects and certainly not as one dimensional as he thinks it is. Especially true when no specific grievances are expressed in detail so of course we go downhill.

And arguing with him on culture/communism stunting innovation is stupid as well. Look at all the democratic nations, especially India, that lag so far behind China in technology and patent filing. The US poaches its scientists from foreign countries baiting them with their own greed so real American beer-guzzling communications majoring frat boys can claim that USA invented all these techs.

The reason why this antiquated notion that Chinese do not innovate exists is so very simple. Decades ago, China was in a state where it couldn't build a calculator, looking at peers who could build supercomputers. At this stage, it's just stupid to "invent" things because your knowledge base is too small. First you must learn from the world to catch up before you out-invent them. At this point, Westerners rejoiced at this observation that the Chinese do not innovate; they only copy. They were happy to conclude that this was an inherent flaw with Communism, but in actuality, it is true for all nations starting at a low technological point. So for China, at that point, could not innovate, in the same sense that a first grader does not invent tech; he learns what is taught in school to build his knowledge base and it would be very stupid to conclude that it is because he is inherently incapable. As Chinese tech matured and drew to even footing with its peers (some areas faster than others), it is the equivalent of this boy graduating his PhD. At this inflection point, he is ready to innovate on his own and even surpass his instructors as we see in many areas today. In some other areas, China may still be working on its degree. But everywhere, Chinese tech is rising and the trends point to ubiquitous catching up to its peers through obtaining tech, and then overtaking those peers through Chinese innovation.

 

[vincent]

US patent office handed out approvals like popcorns

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[Flying_Fortress]

I am not here to bash the c

No, we've already been through this idiocy. The summary goes as following:

You: Chinese can never innovate.
Me: The top 2 technological patent designers are Chinese companies: Huawei and ZTE; the US comes in 3rd. International and domestic patents added together, China's count more than doubles (maybe even triples) the US count. China has the world's fastest and second-fastest supercomputers, the only quantum satellite, and the most advanced quantum communications technology. How do you copy something that doesn't exist or copy and have it end up better than the original?
You: Uh... Patents don't count because Chinese just file patents for the number, not for important technology.
Everyone: Where is your evidence/source/citation for that?
You: Fact is stranger than fiction.
Everyone: That doesn't mean anything. Where is your evidence?
You: You guys are all trolls and you hate me because I'm right and the mods are going rogue against me because it's all censored here. Wah Wah

Then you bring up the same stupid regurgitation of outdated Western slander as an argument again? It shows that you're wrong, but you want your view to be right so much that you are forced to ignore all evidence.

You have a fantastical imagination... unfortunately, that's not good for linking things by logic.... The fact that everyone bashes you, but with plenty to say doesn't mean you're right; it means everyone thinks you're out of your mind, because you actually are. Want evidence? Go to a national paleontology meeting and shout "Dinosaurs aren't real! Dragons are real!" and see how security handles you. When you get escorted out with everyone calling you an idiot, do you think it proves that you were so "DEAD ON" that nobody could handle the truth? LOL

The mods delete and censor my posts, FACT.

90% of the replies to my posts are people slandering me and calling for me to be banned for discussing something that is contrary to the group think at this forum, FACT.

The patent quality of Chinese applicants is low by international comparisons, because they are pushed to publish and apply for nonsensical patents. FACT

Chinese Technology Companies can only mimic, let's look at Xiao Mi - they used iPhone patents, copied iPhone as much as possible, the CEO even copies the way Steve Jobs dressed. FACT

ZTE & Huawei despite their mythical patent counts still relie on Western Tech for ... Well everything. They can't even invent their own OS, they use Android for their phones. They use Windows in their Computers. FACT

The Chinese Government Pads the Statistics about everything from economy to technology. FACT

I can't stop winning here.

This super computer you keep going on about is probably a LAN of windows 95 computers in the basement of Tsinghua.

How much does the Chinese Government pay you to come shill propaganda here ?

 

[ougoah]

And arguing with him on culture/communism stunting innovation is stupid as well. Look at all the democratic nations, especially India, that lag so far behind China in technology and patent filing. The US poaches its scientists from foreign countries baiting them with their own greed so real American beer-guzzling communications majoring frat boys can claim that USA invented all these techs.

The reason why this antiquated notion that Chinese do not innovate exists is so very simple. Decades ago, China was in a state where it couldn't build a calculator, looking at peers who could build supercomputers. At this stage, it's just stupid to "invent" things because your knowledge base is too small. First you must learn from the world to catch up before you out-invent them. At this point, Westerners rejoiced at this observation that the Chinese do not innovate; they only copy. They were happy to conclude that this was an inherent flaw with Communism, but in actuality, it is true for all nations starting at a low technological point. So for China, at that point, could not innovate, in the same sense that a first grader does not invent tech; he learns what is taught in school to build his knowledge base and it would be very stupid to conclude that it is because he is inherently incapable. As Chinese tech matured and drew to even footing with its peers (some areas faster than others), it is the equivalent of this boy graduating his PhD. At this inflection point, he is ready to innovate on his own and even surpass his instructors as we see in many areas today. In some other areas, China may still be working on its degree. But everywhere, Chinese tech is rising and the trends point to ubiquitous catching up to its peers through obtaining tech, and then overtaking those peers through Chinese innovation.

Arguing directly is often stupid because it is futile. But writing what you just did for the benefit of other readers is worthwhile. Probably why you and everyone else including myself bother in our own ways. If we were truly indifferent to the injustices and lies spread around, we would stay silent.

 

[ougoah]

US patent office handed out approvals like popcorns

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The vast majority of any nation's patents are silly and just done in case they ever become profitable. Just like Chinese patents. There is no reason for the CPC to encourage fake patents to look good. No one cares that much and no one really uses that as ammunition on its own. Only ever used as evidence that Chinese can and do innovate. The onus of proof is on the ones claiming patents are mostly fake. Till this day there has been no solid single piece of evidence. Evidence to the contrary is fairly apparent though ... that being the success of these companies around the world and creating technologies that are not available to be copied as claimed by these people. Giving someone a microprocessor doesn't allow them to copy it miraculously otherwise India would also be a powerhouse in every way. They've had access to western up-to-date tech for close to a century with close to zero results to show for it all. So it is not as simple as these people claim it is.

 

[s002wjh]

I am not here to bash the c

The mods delete and censor my posts, FACT.

90% of the replies to my posts are people slandering me and calling for me to be banned for discussing something that is contrary to the group think at this forum, FACT.

The patent quality of Chinese applicants is low by international comparisons, because they are pushed to publish and apply for nonsensical patents. FACT

Chinese Technology Companies can only mimic, let's look at Xiao Mi - they used iPhone patents, copied iPhone as much as possible, the CEO even copies the way Steve Jobs dressed. FACT

ZTE & Huawei despite their mythical patent counts still relie on Western Tech for ... Well everything. They can't even invent their own OS, they use Android for their phones. They use Windows in their Computers. FACT

The Chinese Government Pads the Statistics about everything from economy to technology. FACT

I can't stop winning here.

This super computer you keep going on about is probably a LAN of windows 95 computers in the basement of Tsinghua.

How much does the Chinese Government pay you to come shill propaganda here ?

Chinese still lack tech know how compare to western but you obviously has bias against chinese. What those patent and other data show you was its growth. 10 years ago no one in US heard if Xiaomi Huawei etc no one bother to purchase Chinese brands phones or drone etc. China show the same pattern as Japan in 70/80s and SK in 90s but on bigger scale. Don't be naive to think they won't become tech power house in the future especially after Chinese grad from US went back to china. And they pay top salary for high skill jobs . The reason US see china as rivals more than Russia is because it's growth . China hasn't stop that growth yet, those data show u that future growth

 

[ougoah]

I am not here to bash the c

The mods delete and censor my posts, FACT.

90% of the replies to my posts are people slandering me and calling for me to be banned for discussing something that is contrary to the group think at this forum, FACT.

The patent quality of Chinese applicants is low by international comparisons, because they are pushed to publish and apply for nonsensical patents. FACT

Chinese Technology Companies can only mimic, let's look at Xiao Mi - they used iPhone patents, copied iPhone as much as possible, the CEO even copies the way Steve Jobs dressed. FACT

ZTE & Huawei despite their mythical patent counts still relie on Western Tech for ... Well everything. They can't even invent their own OS, they use Android for their phones. They use Windows in their Computers. FACT

The Chinese Government Pads the Statistics about everything from economy to technology. FACT

I can't stop winning here.

This super computer you keep going on about is probably a LAN of windows 95 computers in the basement of Tsinghua.

How much does the Chinese Government pay you to come shill propaganda here ?

I wish they paid me hahaha and I bet the others do too.

Some more facts for you:

It is not simple to build supercomputers. Not just LANing computers together lol... how much credibility you lost here.

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Here's some examples of stupid American patents so it's not a one way street. And you need proof when you make claims that Chinese patents are done for dubious reasons.

Your posts may have been deleted by mods because they violate rules. So many of mine have. I don't claim it's some conspiracy against my opinions though or anti-chinese so that one from you is a cheap cheap shot. Not valid because it happens to all of us. You just need to learn to back your claims up because they are WILD son. Like your claim about LANing computers.... oh I can't even... stop hitting the bars and go back to school.

American dominance in software and OS is a given. Definitely true here. XiaoMi and others using their OS is okay? It's not a crime is it? What about Sony? Samsung? Nokia etc? Why are those foreign companies getting the pass? Oh right I forget it's evil commies that's the problem.

BTW Maybe I need to spell this out. No one here has claimed Chinese have complete tech dominance over USA. Don't let your damaged ego make you jump to conclusions here. Read Manqiangrexu's post again for an apt analogy.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I am not here to bash the c

LOL What?

The mods delete and censor my posts, FACT.

Because they were stupid and not supported by evidence or sources, FACT.

90% of the replies to my posts are people slandering me and calling for me to be banned for discussing something that is contrary to the group think at this forum, FACT.

Stupid people always think they're being discriminated against when it's actually because they are under-performing. It's because of the reason outlined directly above this line. Nobody respects people who cannot post sources for thier claims FACT

The patent quality of Chinese applicants is low by international comparisons, because they are pushed to publish and apply for nonsensical patents. FACT

Once again, sources are desperately required for you to make this claim, because it is not a fact, and people have very little respect for you if you don't know what a fact is.

Chinese Technology Companies can only mimic, let's look at Xiao Mi - they used iPhone patents, copied iPhone as much as possible, the CEO even copies the way Steve Jobs dressed. FACT

Phones look very similar, just like tires and cares look very similar. When you wrote this, I can't help but wonder if it's because you don't know what a patent is... because it would be illegal to sell those phones globally if they infringed on patents.

ZTE & Huawei despite their mythical patent counts still relie on Western Tech for ... Well everything. They can't even invent their own OS, they use Android for their phones. They use Windows in their Computers. FACT

True, why reinvent the wheel? If Android works fine, why the expense to make something else? We are in a globalized economy, after all. Stand on the shoulders of giants to see further than them.

The Chinese Government Pads the Statistics about everything from economy to technology. FACT

That's the last line of defense for people who don't want to believe China's success; just pretend the numbers are all fake. When you're deaf to evidence, you can believe anything you want.

I can't stop winning here.

This super computer you keep going on about is probably a LAN of windows 95 computers in the basement of Tsinghua.

Oh. My. Gosh... You are actually more ignorant than I had thought. You don't know about Taihulight (uses all Chinese chips, 5X faster than America's best, the Titan), Tianhe II , or the upcoming Tianhe III, do you? You also didn't know that China overtook the US by a very substantial margin in both the total system count (202 vs 144) and cumulative computing power, did you? So it's not "a" supercomputer I'm going on about... It's so very sad that you came to this "debate" armed with so little knowledge...

How much does the Chinese Government pay you to come shill propaganda here ?

Saaaddd LOLOL You're ignorant on the things you say, don't know how to provide citations/sources, don't even know the definition of FACT (it's not "statements that you most desperately want to be true" LOL) so you resort to calling other people shills? Haha Let's just say this; if we were both being paid to post, I'd be your supervisor and your trainee-level stipend would be on probation for making your host country look ignorant and stupid LOL

 

[Jura The idiot]

Most of the "Farmers" these days are not small mom and pop farmers, they are corporate farms. So I imagine corporate profits would be down, the price of soybeans would drop. If they did not find new markets for the soybeans next year, I imagine they'd change crops.

would they (= soybean farmers) get reimbursed in the meantime (= while unable to sell to China), or it'd be their personal problem?

 

[ougoah]

I don't follow this guy's logic. When has anyone here "slandered" him? Unless calling him a troll etc is slander. Unsubstantiated rude comments about a whole nation of people isn't trolling now? That's the only "attack" on him I can see. That's classic snowflake behaviour. Can dish it out comfortably. Cannot take even a slight hit. Weak. We've actually all been quite patient and relatively polite despite the accusations against us. I can't imagine another group of people being as calm and civilised about all this to be honest. Others would have resorted to real insults and slander by now.