PRC/PLAN Laser and Rail Gun Development Thread
- Thread starter SinoSoldier
- Start date
I read a article in chinese from other site saying this is not a pure "rail gun" sense which is why its a failure but a hybrid "rail mod" enhancement on the chinese version advanced gun system.
Here is article for those can read chinese, english speaker can google translate
海軍】中共海軍的新炮
2018/02/02 08:57瀏覽1,159迴響6推薦1引用0
幾天前，一張來自武漢的照片顯示共軍在一艘072型坦克登陸艦上安裝了一門形狀很奇怪的新炮，POP3隨即宣佈這是“電磁炮”。從艦上的幾個集裝箱和登陸艦内部的充裕空間來看，這的確是一門需要很多附屬電力設備的設計，炮管上也有額外的環形外罩，應該是綫圈，所以“電磁”兩個字並非不合理。
936號“海洋山”072II型坦克登陸艦，排水量3430噸；請注意，艦體前方的開口已經被封死。
但是這門新炮並不是美國人做的或者我以前談的“電磁炮”（“Railgun”，嚴格來説應該翻譯成“軌道炮”），這是因爲工作原理完全不一樣：Railgun的炮彈是綫圈環路的一部分（所以磁場是垂直於軸向的），必須承載很高的電流，只有如此，才能提供足夠的加速度來達到Mach 7以上的初速（計劃中的性能，美軍的原型只做到Mach 5）。但是它的缺點也很嚴重：炮身雖然不必是密封的管狀（實際上只是兩條導軌，兼職做爲電流的接頭；這也是Railgun名字的來源），卻必須承受極大的摩擦力和電流加熱，所以射速和炮身壽命都是難以剋服的工程挑戰，以致去年有報導說美國海軍已經準備放棄。
武漢新炮卻有一個傳統的炮管，多出來的綫圈是圍繞著炮管的環形，那麽電流環路只存在於炮管外，產生的磁場是沿著炮身的軸向。如此一來，炮彈要感受加速度，本身就必須自帶強磁場；這是有些奇怪的，因爲永磁磁鐵並不便宜。或許共軍的研究團隊有我目前沒有想象到的妙招，或許中方因爲是稀土大國，所以可以這樣大量消費永磁磁鐵；不論這個經費問題如何解決，這種電磁加速方法的效率是不如Railgun的。
三年前我曾寫過專文評論電磁炮（參見前文《忽悠大衆的虛擬武器》），當時我對Railgun的負面意見來自兩個考慮：第一個是前面提到的炮身磨損問題，這是工程上的挑戰，中共的工程師想出工程上的解決方案（雖然還是有代價的）並非邏輯的不可能。但是第二個毛病，也就是高速動能彈在現代海戰中沒有意義，卻是物理+軍事的問題，很難想象這個武漢新炮能如何脫困。
我在這裏再詳細解釋一下：高速動能彈如果像百年前的戰艦巨炮一樣平射，因爲海平面大氣密度高，阻力大，不管初速多高，有效射程還是不可能超過40公里（這也剛好是地球曲率所造成的海面視界），而現代海戰一旦開打，就非常不可能讓敵我水面艦隻接近到這種距離。如果曲射，那麽面對能機動的目標，精度必然一塌糊塗，必須有雷達/紅外制導，炮彈的價錢一下子提高兩個數量級，接近導彈了，可是破壞力、射程和航路靈活度卻都遠遠不如，定位十分尷尬。
至於用來近防反導，射速必須極高（~每分鐘10000發），口徑反而不重要。照片裏的炮顯然不是為這個目的設計的。事實上，即使是用環形綫圈，電磁推動的艦炮射速永遠不會高於傳統火炮，所以天生就不適用於近防反導；激光才是合適的新技術。
從照片來看，這個設計似乎有傳統的炮管，那麽最可能的，就是它基本上還是火炮，只不過加上電磁助推來增程減重。如前所述，它不適合對海和對空，那麽就應該是針對打擊固定的地面目標而設計的，可以采用相對簡單便宜得多的衛星制導來打擊點目標，或者靠完全無制導的自旋穩定來打擊面目標，只要口徑夠大，能裝載足夠的炸藥，性價比還可以接受。炮彈受發射藥和電磁綫圈雙重加速，炮管的長度和厚度都可以減半，以往要10000噸的重巡洋艦才能搭載的8寸炮，現在3400噸的船就可以搞定，曲射（假設Mach 3初速）又有100公里以上的射程，那麽我想用來在臺海戰役或者對任何美軍以外的敵對方岸上據點做為火力艦進行先期炮擊，還是可能有經濟效益的。
不過我覺得這種“電磁助推火炮”最好的應用，還是把口徑增加到400毫米，也就是二戰時代40000噸級戰列艦的火炮水準。由於電磁綫圈的減重效應，10000噸出頭的055型仍然可能裝得下。除了發射200公里射程的大型彈丸之外，還可以用來為小型導彈助推（當然，加速度必須降低，否則有些零件承受不起）。照片中的武漢新炮似乎只有200毫米左右的口徑，但是它可能是第一代的原型，將來還是有向大型化發展的可能。
Here is article for those can read chinese, english speaker can google translate
海軍】中共海軍的新炮
2018/02/02 08:57瀏覽1,159迴響6推薦1引用0
幾天前，一張來自武漢的照片顯示共軍在一艘072型坦克登陸艦上安裝了一門形狀很奇怪的新炮，POP3隨即宣佈這是“電磁炮”。從艦上的幾個集裝箱和登陸艦内部的充裕空間來看，這的確是一門需要很多附屬電力設備的設計，炮管上也有額外的環形外罩，應該是綫圈，所以“電磁”兩個字並非不合理。
936號“海洋山”072II型坦克登陸艦，排水量3430噸；請注意，艦體前方的開口已經被封死。
但是這門新炮並不是美國人做的或者我以前談的“電磁炮”（“Railgun”，嚴格來説應該翻譯成“軌道炮”），這是因爲工作原理完全不一樣：Railgun的炮彈是綫圈環路的一部分（所以磁場是垂直於軸向的），必須承載很高的電流，只有如此，才能提供足夠的加速度來達到Mach 7以上的初速（計劃中的性能，美軍的原型只做到Mach 5）。但是它的缺點也很嚴重：炮身雖然不必是密封的管狀（實際上只是兩條導軌，兼職做爲電流的接頭；這也是Railgun名字的來源），卻必須承受極大的摩擦力和電流加熱，所以射速和炮身壽命都是難以剋服的工程挑戰，以致去年有報導說美國海軍已經準備放棄。
武漢新炮卻有一個傳統的炮管，多出來的綫圈是圍繞著炮管的環形，那麽電流環路只存在於炮管外，產生的磁場是沿著炮身的軸向。如此一來，炮彈要感受加速度，本身就必須自帶強磁場；這是有些奇怪的，因爲永磁磁鐵並不便宜。或許共軍的研究團隊有我目前沒有想象到的妙招，或許中方因爲是稀土大國，所以可以這樣大量消費永磁磁鐵；不論這個經費問題如何解決，這種電磁加速方法的效率是不如Railgun的。
三年前我曾寫過專文評論電磁炮（參見前文《忽悠大衆的虛擬武器》），當時我對Railgun的負面意見來自兩個考慮：第一個是前面提到的炮身磨損問題，這是工程上的挑戰，中共的工程師想出工程上的解決方案（雖然還是有代價的）並非邏輯的不可能。但是第二個毛病，也就是高速動能彈在現代海戰中沒有意義，卻是物理+軍事的問題，很難想象這個武漢新炮能如何脫困。
我在這裏再詳細解釋一下：高速動能彈如果像百年前的戰艦巨炮一樣平射，因爲海平面大氣密度高，阻力大，不管初速多高，有效射程還是不可能超過40公里（這也剛好是地球曲率所造成的海面視界），而現代海戰一旦開打，就非常不可能讓敵我水面艦隻接近到這種距離。如果曲射，那麽面對能機動的目標，精度必然一塌糊塗，必須有雷達/紅外制導，炮彈的價錢一下子提高兩個數量級，接近導彈了，可是破壞力、射程和航路靈活度卻都遠遠不如，定位十分尷尬。
至於用來近防反導，射速必須極高（~每分鐘10000發），口徑反而不重要。照片裏的炮顯然不是為這個目的設計的。事實上，即使是用環形綫圈，電磁推動的艦炮射速永遠不會高於傳統火炮，所以天生就不適用於近防反導；激光才是合適的新技術。
從照片來看，這個設計似乎有傳統的炮管，那麽最可能的，就是它基本上還是火炮，只不過加上電磁助推來增程減重。如前所述，它不適合對海和對空，那麽就應該是針對打擊固定的地面目標而設計的，可以采用相對簡單便宜得多的衛星制導來打擊點目標，或者靠完全無制導的自旋穩定來打擊面目標，只要口徑夠大，能裝載足夠的炸藥，性價比還可以接受。炮彈受發射藥和電磁綫圈雙重加速，炮管的長度和厚度都可以減半，以往要10000噸的重巡洋艦才能搭載的8寸炮，現在3400噸的船就可以搞定，曲射（假設Mach 3初速）又有100公里以上的射程，那麽我想用來在臺海戰役或者對任何美軍以外的敵對方岸上據點做為火力艦進行先期炮擊，還是可能有經濟效益的。
不過我覺得這種“電磁助推火炮”最好的應用，還是把口徑增加到400毫米，也就是二戰時代40000噸級戰列艦的火炮水準。由於電磁綫圈的減重效應，10000噸出頭的055型仍然可能裝得下。除了發射200公里射程的大型彈丸之外，還可以用來為小型導彈助推（當然，加速度必須降低，否則有些零件承受不起）。照片中的武漢新炮似乎只有200毫米左右的口徑，但是它可能是第一代的原型，將來還是有向大型化發展的可能。
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Some rumor about why the Haiyangshan has been chosen to bear the honour: It served during the 1996 Taiwan-Strait Crisis, China's navy's wake up call.
072大型登陆舰，海洋山号，936舰，作为人类历史上，第一艘电磁炮舰，必将载入史册。
能够获得这种荣誉的，为什么是936舰？
用坦克登陆舰来实验电磁炮，原因就不赘述了。072大型登陆舰有很多艘，为什么会选择936舰来改装？
据百度，072型有3艘，072Ⅱ型有4艘，072Ⅲ型有11艘，072A型有16艘。
其中，服役于1996年的072大型登陆舰，只有二艘，936舰海洋山号，937舰青城山号。
至于1996年，说来话长了。
072大型登陆舰，海洋山号，936舰，作为人类历史上，第一艘电磁炮舰，必将载入史册。
能够获得这种荣誉的，为什么是936舰？
用坦克登陆舰来实验电磁炮，原因就不赘述了。072大型登陆舰有很多艘，为什么会选择936舰来改装？
据百度，072型有3艘，072Ⅱ型有4艘，072Ⅲ型有11艘，072A型有16艘。
其中，服役于1996年的072大型登陆舰，只有二艘，936舰海洋山号，937舰青城山号。
至于1996年，说来话长了。
He needs to see the new pic today; the barrel is rectangular. It can only be a regular railgun.
PLAN does not have AGS because they have given up on 155mm and developed precision guided ammo for 130mm (055, 052D). Some people (pop3) said the same guided ammo can be used on the railgun
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
The barrel is square for sure Anyway fro Oedo
Naval Processing University Power Integrated Innovation Team introduced at the official website of the National Science and Technology Awards Competition in 2015 > A certain type electromagnetic launch system in which the team was developed will advance in parallel with the world's most advanced level > Breakthrough the stepping state of rail type electromagnetic energy weapons technology in our country and showed significant progress
Naval Processing University Power Integrated Innovation Team introduced at the official website of the National Science and Technology Awards Competition in 2015 > A certain type electromagnetic launch system in which the team was developed will advance in parallel with the world's most advanced level > Breakthrough the stepping state of rail type electromagnetic energy weapons technology in our country and showed significant progress
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Google translate
Under the guidance of Academician Ma Weiming, Navy Institute of Electric Power Integration Innovation Team has set up a world-class State Key Laboratory of Ship Integrated Power Technology. And has become a R & D center and a high-level personnel training base in military electrical field after nearly 30 years of struggle.
The existing permanent researchers has 73 people, including 43 senior staff, Dr. 66, the average age of 35 years. The team created the "power integration" technical thinking, developed three generations of integrated power generation system, breaking the monopoly of foreign technology and laid the international shipbuilding power generationand become international leader in the field .
The first wave of medium-voltage DC integrated power system ship, to achieve China's ship power from backward to the leading leapfrog the foreignner, and led the international development of integrated power technology. The development of an electromagnetic launch system has filled the domestic blank and achieved simultaneous development with the most advanced level in the world.
And breaking the bottleneck that the guide rail electromagnetic energy weapon technology in our country that was stagnant and made significant progress. The team has won two first and second prizes of national scientific and technological progress, two third prizes of technical inventions, 12 first prizes of military scientific and technological progress and eight second prizes.
The team achievements promoted the leap-forward development of the weapons and equipment of our warships, enhanced national confidence and won wide acclaim from experts and media both at home and abroad. The team actively promoted the integration of civilians and civilians and led the establishment of a national R & D center for new energy access equipment.
They developed wind power, photovoltaic power generation converter devices and multi-energy power stations have produced significant economic and social benefits. Based on long-term accumulation and sustainable development, the team has more than 700 million yuan of fixed assets, more than 20,000 square meters of scientific research construction area and more than 700 sets of instruments and equipments. It has won 70 invention patents of the state / national defense and 5 monographs and published SCI / EI More than 550 papers. At present, the team is carrying out project development and popularization and application of integrated power and electromagnetic launch systems, and actively promoting the transformation of naval equipment and information and the development in civil-related fields.
Under the guidance of Academician Ma Weiming, Navy Institute of Electric Power Integration Innovation Team has set up a world-class State Key Laboratory of Ship Integrated Power Technology. And has become a R & D center and a high-level personnel training base in military electrical field after nearly 30 years of struggle.
The existing permanent researchers has 73 people, including 43 senior staff, Dr. 66, the average age of 35 years. The team created the "power integration" technical thinking, developed three generations of integrated power generation system, breaking the monopoly of foreign technology and laid the international shipbuilding power generationand become international leader in the field .
The first wave of medium-voltage DC integrated power system ship, to achieve China's ship power from backward to the leading leapfrog the foreignner, and led the international development of integrated power technology. The development of an electromagnetic launch system has filled the domestic blank and achieved simultaneous development with the most advanced level in the world.
And breaking the bottleneck that the guide rail electromagnetic energy weapon technology in our country that was stagnant and made significant progress. The team has won two first and second prizes of national scientific and technological progress, two third prizes of technical inventions, 12 first prizes of military scientific and technological progress and eight second prizes.
The team achievements promoted the leap-forward development of the weapons and equipment of our warships, enhanced national confidence and won wide acclaim from experts and media both at home and abroad. The team actively promoted the integration of civilians and civilians and led the establishment of a national R & D center for new energy access equipment.
They developed wind power, photovoltaic power generation converter devices and multi-energy power stations have produced significant economic and social benefits. Based on long-term accumulation and sustainable development, the team has more than 700 million yuan of fixed assets, more than 20,000 square meters of scientific research construction area and more than 700 sets of instruments and equipments. It has won 70 invention patents of the state / national defense and 5 monographs and published SCI / EI More than 550 papers. At present, the team is carrying out project development and popularization and application of integrated power and electromagnetic launch systems, and actively promoting the transformation of naval equipment and information and the development in civil-related fields.
Jura The idiot
General
this is very cool:
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Wait until you see this guy
The battlecruiser of new era.(ー_ー
or this
The winner of the game.
Look like Bismark updated
The battlecruiser of new era.(ー_ー
or this
The winner of the game.
Look like Bismark updated