Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[ougoah]

What's my narrative? To rubbish everything Russian? I've backed up my claims about no side bays and having main bays that can only support four mraams. The engine news has been discussed and is nothing new. Apart from one picture, what else is there to say beyond what has? I think you're being too sensitive about Russian stuff. I'm guessing the reason for your discontentment is because I talked about Su-57 having small bays. That stuff is true otherwise prove it not so. I don't recall ever starting to mention F-35. The messages you're referring to have been in response to comments regarding F-35. If it was me who mentioned it, I apologise, but it probably was relevant to a point being made.

My first two posts in this thread:

"Perhaps you're right about the future. Photonics based radars in the coming decades certainly will make current LO technology obsolete. But the fact that many airforces around the world including China's are investing heavily in stealth, goes to show that it is extremely valuable and effective today and in the near future. It will be at least a decade before aerial warfare is again revolutionised by new missiles, sensors, jammers, drones, and AI. For now, if stealth is truly as obsolete as you suggest, why would Russia, India, USA + JSF countries, be pursuing stealth? Not to mention, Korea wants to start its own program with a few partners. Their LO fighters will be at least a decade away from LRIP."

and

"Yes VLO and fifth gen is a lot of marketing but they are also improving on the abilities of legacy fighters. You cannot deny the massive advantage a VLO fighter offers. Especially true against a lesser adversary. For example, if PLAAF employed J-20s against the best India has to offer, there won't be much of a fight. India has not heavily invested in countering LO platforms so they don't have the radars, missiles, or fighters that can effectively counter J-20s at the moment. This example is between countries that are supposedly not too far off each other in capabilities. Stealthy planes are well worth it if the economic costs can be offset by correct application e.g. minimising risks and used as force multipliers to knock out strategic targets."

Now you can see how things went about. Maybe it's a fellow Russian fan that's made this tedious reading for claiming stealth is useless and new radars will make huge investments into stealth useless. All the proceeding talk about F-35 or others were in response to some claims. Just because I'm not praising Su-57 at every opportunity, does not make me the bad guy.

 

[wilhelm]

Ougoah, you forgot some of your other bald statements"
"The Su-57 is an utter failure"
"Russian manufacturing has always been rubbish"
Etc...etc..
Loads more stuff like that from you through the thread.

Do you read or remember what you actually write? There is a whole list of this type of stuff in a queue from your posts on this thread that can be used as examples.

Another example..you called me a "Russian fan" without any context, and without knowing a single thing about me.
That's the level your denigration has sank to in other posts against other posters too. If you don't like what they say..insult them and call them Rusdian fan boys....
I am not Russian, have never been to Russia, and can't speak the language.

I don't air my petty inadequacies in a campaign against any nations aircraft. I am equally interested in them all.
So I come here to see informed debate about the Su-57..just as i do in the J-20 or f-35 sections, not indulge in personal vendettas against any nationalities dressed up as something else.

 

[wilhelm]

Anyway..as ( Gloire I think?) said, I'll let you have the last word ...and rather go elsewhere for cleaner informed analysis of the Su-57.

 

[ougoah]

Ougoah, you forgot some of your other bald statements"
"The Su-57 is an utter failure"
"Russian manufacturing has always been rubbish"
Etc...etc..
Loads more stuff like that from you through the thread.

Do you read or remember what you actually write? There is a whole list of this type of stuff in a queue from your posts on this thread that can be used as examples.

Another example..you called me a "Russian fan" without any context, and without knowing a single thing about me.
That's the level your denigration has sank to in other posts against other posters too. If you don't like what they say..insult them and call them Rusdian fan boys....
I am not Russian, have never been to Russia, and can't speak the language.

I don't air my petty inadequacies in a campaign against any nations aircraft. I am equally interested in them all.
So I come here to see informed debate about the Su-57..just as i do in the J-20 or f-35 sections, not indulge in personal vendettas against any nationalities dressed up as something else.

Can you provide complete quotes of instances where you think I've been unfair on Su-57 and/or Russian equipment. Not quotes sliced out of context. I believe I said that Su-57 is an utter failure compared to other stealth platforms in regards to VLO, timing of delivery etc. But if you want to quote, provide the whole quote and look at previous messages in which things said are in response to. Also wish to explain all this privately to not pollute this thread further.

 

[ougoah]

Also re Russian manufacturing being rubbish. This is as true for Chinese manufacturing. So I'm not really picking on Russians because of some alleged personal vendetta am I? This was also in the context of why they can't seem to build any refined fighter skins in particular. Russian worksmanship is generally quite rough. This is true for every piece of military equipment. Chinese inherited this weakness in manufacturing COMPARED to the West. Toshiba or someone else had to build Soviet submarine turbines. This was said relating to the poor surface finish of Sukhois again COMPARED to the West. They can at least manufacture stuff which puts them in the top 10 countries in the world so again no personal vendetta. All I see is people not liking being NOT constantly praised and having others (me) rubbish their ridiculous claims and theories. I do this to the Chinese side too. Sorry about off topic but need to defend myself against all these low post count members coming out blaming me for being anti Russian and putting words in my mouth by misquouting/ misunderstanding me.

 

[ougoah]

Anyway..as ( Gloire I think?) said, I'll let you have the last word ...and rather go elsewhere for cleaner informed analysis of the Su-57.

Please do that. May I suggest Sputnik news, RT, or RussiaDefence... geniuses who unabashedly proclaim Russian superiority in strategy if not equipment, while rubbishing EVERYTHING Chinese with complete impunity. Or stay and discuss things at hand rather than people making statements. If you disagree with Su-57 being unstealthy, say things to show otherwise rather than engaging people who claim so. If you think Su-57 can carry 6 mraams and 2 sraams internally, show it. Discuss the issue at hand before voicing a complaint on a member with trumped up charges.

 

[wilhelm]

Aah yes..I remember now.
You are the f16.net "quote" guy.

Strange place to hang out, seeing as they regard anything Chinese, Russian etc (and anything non US) as inferior rubbish.

It all makes sense now..some of your posts on this, the Chinese engine, J-10 and J-20 threads.
Like Gloire bb and others, I realise there is no point in engaging with an amateur armchair "aerodynamicist" with a personal xenophobic axe to grind. Pointless. Apologies to the better posters.

Enjoy.

 

[b787]

Ougoah, you forgot some of your other bald statements"
"The Su-57 is an utter failure"
"Russian manufacturing has always been rubbish"
Etc...etc..
Loads more stuff like that from you through the thread.

Do you read or remember what you actually write? There is a whole list of this type of stuff in a queue from your posts on this thread that can be used as examples.

Another example..you called me a "Russian fan" without any context, and without knowing a single thing about me.
That's the level your denigration has sank to in other posts against other posters too. If you don't like what they say..insult them and call them Rusdian fan boys....
I am not Russian, have never been to Russia, and can't speak the language.

I don't air my petty inadequacies in a campaign against any nations aircraft. I am equally interested in them all.
So I come here to see informed debate about the Su-57..just as i do in the J-20 or f-35 sections, not indulge in personal vendettas against any nationalities dressed up as something else.

What I have read about Su-57 or watch in videos i can summarized it in this.


Su-57 is an stealthy aircraft thanks to composites, shape and electronic warfare, if you want to have news about it, best links are in Russian.


I will leave you a few sources some are in English though.
I am not Russian like you, so my translation of Russian written language is not the best i do understand some Russian but not very well. Jura does very well.

The Russians say stealth is not invulnerable, in fact they claim S-400 and S-500 can detect B-2 and F-22 and their missiles will down them.


Their philosophy is Su-57 has 5 radars several other sensors and a very good electronic warfare system called "Himalaya"

They claim PAKFA has at some angles a RCS of 0.1 meters but in others 1 meter, however they claim F-22 is not as stealthy as claimed by Lockheed.

The Su-57 has superior agility to any other 5th generation fighter, they regard Su-57 as the best in that regard.
Some Russian analysts say it can supercruise at 1500km/h but officially Sukhoi has not released any number.


However they say it needs T-30 because 117 is not ideal in fuel efficiency and thrust to weight ratio.

Probably at this moment, only the Chinese have an Idea as how fast the early prototypes can supercruise because Su-35 has a variant of the same engine.

In aerodynamics they say the LEVCON was chosen because it generates less drag than canards and its horizontal stabilizer is set as F-22`s ones allowing the TVC nozzle to release the horizontal stabilizer thus reducing drag and radar signature.

TVC nozzles are used to reduce vertical tail plumage size, thus contrary to MiG-1.44 does not need ventral fins nor the flapped controls the MiG-1.44 needed at the tail boom ends.

Su-57 chose the Su-27 basic layout because it allows lift similar to the Tomcat and Flanker with the flat portion called by many pancake which is between both engines nacelles and the integral configuration wing fuselage blending of the LEX and LEVCON portion, this helped to reduce frontal cross section and augmented lift while allowing to fit ventral weapons bays.


They used S shaped inlect ducts in Su-47 Berkut thus they knew them but they deemed they add too much weight, so Su-57 has S shaped ducts but not as curved and some say a radar blocker like F-18E or X-32.

Su-57 is a machine designed to fly very fast, have decent frontal stealth, and in theory use electronic warfare to damage any missile shot at it.

At WVR it is supposedly ready to dogfight and use any trick if needed of post stall maneuvering .


So their basic philosophy is radars can detect stealth, IRST systems and data links will help to detect other 5th generation and speed will allow it to escape.

Further more they consider in a full blown war airstrips will be damage thus many 5th generation will be out of combat without even taking off.

They consider stealth degrades aerodynamics thus they at this moment used less emphasis in stealth in the rear section however they have studied 2D nozzles in a Su-27 but considered it reduced too much thrust.


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[Deino]

Guys ... Either stay on topic or just don't post.

 

[b787]

The newest Su-57 fighter due to its modernization potential will be able to become a sixth-generation fighter. This opinion was expressed in an interview with TASS by the ex-commander-in-chief of the Air and Space Forces of the Russian Federation, the chairman of the Council of the Federation Council on Defense and Security Viktor Bondarev.

"This is actually a beautiful airplane, and it can be not only of the fifth, but also of the sixth generation." He has a tremendous modernization potential, most importantly, that he is the best among the existing models, he embodied all the best that exists in modern aviation science, not only Russian, but also the world, "he said.

Bondarev stressed that it takes time to deploy Su-57 production in Russia. "In the first year, VCS will not get 20 or 15 planes, only two or three, and so on," the senator added.

"We have unleashed aviation plants to produce a certain batch of the newest aircraft and helicopters, and now we can not say that we do not need them, in any case, an irreversible process will begin, and this year will not be the next. ", - he said.

The perspective aviation complex of front-line aviation (PAK FA, T-50) was first launched into the air in 2010. Experimental design work, as previously reported, should be completed in 2019, then it is expected to begin deliveries of these aircraft to the troops. The installation lot, said the head of the United Aircraft Corporation Yuri Slyusar, will consist of 12 cars. In August of this year, it became known that the T-50 received the serial name (index) of the Su-57.

In turn, Bondarev, who then held the post of commander-in-chief, stated that Russia had begun work on the creation of a sixth-generation fighter in both manned and unmanned versions.

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