Time for Pakistan to start negotiations for a squadron of J20 in anticipation of the retirement of the F16 fleet in the future.
JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
Never ever !
Time to start for negotiations on the J-10B/C but IMO China will never ever sell the J-20 ... at least not within the next decade(s).
Fits in well with the time line as that's when the F16's would no longer be effective as a front line fighter. I would not expect China would sell it the Vanilla version either.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
Look ... it's not about whether China is willing to sell J-20s, nor is it about buying J-10Cs. What it is about, is what Pakistan Air Force will deem strategically more important. Not for a year from now, nor 2 years. Rather what is important to it, strategically, 5-7 years from now.
The strategic alliance/partnership between Pakistan and China, has existed longer than the J-20 program has been in existence. So I would not go as far as saying that Pakistan is ineligible for J-20s. Both countries know what's important and at stake when it comes to the shifting balance of global power, in economic and military terms. So this isn't about the J-20s, as the Sino-Pak alliance goes well beyond the J-20s. What's important is whether Pakistan Air Force considers itself ready for such an aircraft. It requires infrastructure, maintenance and logistical support. It's only fair to say that the J-20 program is very young. China has just started LRIP of the aircraft. Besides that, Pakistan Air Force is in full swing of the production, test and evaluation, as well as induction of the JF-17 Thunders. What more, it is projected that Pakistan Air Force is to induct around 250-300 Thunders. Spanning around 3-4 Block upgrades. That is a monumental task for a country which has just started it's foray into aircraft manufacture and design.
I would leave the J-20s and J-31s out of the discussion when it comes to the immediate future of Pakistan Air Force's Air-Superiority combat aircraft choice. At present, what we have an indication of, is that Pakistan Air Force has shown interest in further Block-52s from America. However, if that doesn't pan out (with their Orange President in the Oval Office). Then Pakistan Air Force will have to look at preserving the Viper fleet with more upgraded F-16s. Or worst case scenario, gradually phase out the aircraft by giving it a secondary or specific role in the Air-War strategy. Possible options for Pakistan Air Force will be Su-35s, J-10Cs, MiG-35s and/or J-11s.
So will shall have to wait and see! But the future does look bright for Pakistan Air Force.
The strategic alliance/partnership between Pakistan and China, has existed longer than the J-20 program has been in existence. So I would not go as far as saying that Pakistan is ineligible for J-20s. Both countries know what's important and at stake when it comes to the shifting balance of global power, in economic and military terms. So this isn't about the J-20s, as the Sino-Pak alliance goes well beyond the J-20s. What's important is whether Pakistan Air Force considers itself ready for such an aircraft. It requires infrastructure, maintenance and logistical support. It's only fair to say that the J-20 program is very young. China has just started LRIP of the aircraft. Besides that, Pakistan Air Force is in full swing of the production, test and evaluation, as well as induction of the JF-17 Thunders. What more, it is projected that Pakistan Air Force is to induct around 250-300 Thunders. Spanning around 3-4 Block upgrades. That is a monumental task for a country which has just started it's foray into aircraft manufacture and design.
I would leave the J-20s and J-31s out of the discussion when it comes to the immediate future of Pakistan Air Force's Air-Superiority combat aircraft choice. At present, what we have an indication of, is that Pakistan Air Force has shown interest in further Block-52s from America. However, if that doesn't pan out (with their Orange President in the Oval Office). Then Pakistan Air Force will have to look at preserving the Viper fleet with more upgraded F-16s. Or worst case scenario, gradually phase out the aircraft by giving it a secondary or specific role in the Air-War strategy. Possible options for Pakistan Air Force will be Su-35s, J-10Cs, MiG-35s and/or J-11s.
So will shall have to wait and see! But the future does look bright for Pakistan Air Force.
Pakistani F-16A/B Block 15 in majority get upgraded in MLU so for capacity similar to Block 50/52 very decent fighter, and they have again 270 MirageIII/V , F-7P to replaced, ofc China don't sold J-20 ! and let's JF-17 1 Sqn/year replaced old daddies... but buy J-10 can be a very good idea.
Question, a JF-17 block 3 with AESA radar IIRC ? is i think less good than a J-10C but close enough ?
PS : in addition 18 new F-16C/D Bl 52+
Edit possible if the J-31 is build to good price Pakistan buy not a big qty but for 2025 or plus.
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Hyperwarp
Captain
The models of the J-20 given to the PAF by the PLAAF is simply a token of long standing partnership between the two allies. This is probably the only time the PLAAF itself has given a J-20 model to another Air-Force. It not about selling the J-20 but symbol of a unique partnership.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
J-10Cs are indeed excellent combat aircraft, no doubt about it. However, one has to take into consideration that an air force establishes it's war-fighting doctrine based on the competence of its fighter-pilots and the platforms they use. Pakistan Air Force fighter-pilots have 30 years plus of combat experience on the F-16 Fighting Falcons. This forms a significant part of PAF's combat doctrine. Any air force in the world does establish the nucleus of its war-fighting capabilities, around specific aircraft. It's true for USAF, RuAF or PLAAF. And so Pakistan Air Force is no exception to this approach. Therefore it is only logical to assess that Pakistan Air Force will evolve it's doctrine as time progresses and new combat aircraft are inducted into it's fleet.
Take a look at the Turkish, or Israeli or British air forces. There is one or two core aircraft around which these air forces form their war-fighting capabilities. For the Turks its the F-16s and F-4s, Israelis it's the F-16s and F-15s, Brits have Eurofighters and Tornados. So it's important to have a core within the air force. For PLAAF it is J-11s and J-10s. You see where I am going with this?!
Pakistan Air Force will continue to concentrate on the JF-17 Thunders. As this aircraft will be the mainstay for the foreseeable future. As Block-lll arrives, greater capabilities will be available to Pakistan Air Force's fighter pilots. As many are aware, AESAs, HMDs, HOBS, IRST, Adv-EWS and CFTs are some of the capabilities that will form part of future Blocks for JF-17 Thunders. This would be the combat aircraft that Pakistan Air Force will use effectively in the future. Since it is a "Multi-Role" combat aircraft, that would be it's primary role. Hence it is safe to presume that Pakistan Air Force would concentrate on developing the aircraft and it's war-fighting doctrine around it. This will take time, and as years pass by, once JF-17 production line completes it's stipulated order of 250-300 Thunders. By then, Pakistan Air Force would have already began induction of an Air-Superiority combat aircraft.
One last thing, whichever Air-Superiority combat aircraft that Pakistan Air Force selects. You can be sure that they will establish a full-spectrum maintenance and logistical support for it. I'm not talking the usual essential basic support, rather a comprehensive one. And if the aircraft is J-10C, you can rest assured that Pakistan Air Force will build a complete infrastructure to support this aircraft's maximum serviceability.
5-7 years go by at warp speed these days, where time flies faster than an SR-71.
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An air force will also consider the geography of the country it defends, especially considering its size, and the specific tasks it is given. The tasks of the Israeli air force are much greater than that of any other air force in the World belonging to a country of comparable size to give just on extreme example.
Zahid
Junior Member
I have read posts by knowledgeable posters (at PDF) who have worked at Chengdu, stating that JF-17 in fact did quite well against heavy fighters. I do not think that one source can be considered convincing and / or reliable in itself. More information is needed before anyone can speculate as to why JF-17 / FC-1 was not inducted in PLAAF.
For A2A combats several parameters and as Jas-39 a small target what RCS he can have ?
Jas-39 1 m2