055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Iron Man]

You can keep naming destroyers, but that doesn't mean procurement might be less efficient than it could have been with any of those examples.

LOL so in your mind all the other new destroyers in the world are overpriced but the alleged quoted price of the 055 is just right.

 

[taxiya]

View attachment 40046

集合X，S，C，米波等集一身，4套盾，16面阵！

055 has X, S, C, and Meter Wave band radars; 4 sets of wave panels, total 16 panels

I would wonder what the two small rectangular panels on each side of the mast just under the green circle would be.

 

[taxiya]

LOL so in your mind all the other new destroyers in the world are overpriced but the alleged quoted price of the 055 is just right.

To be fair, all others' prices are quoted from open sources. The price of 055 is alleged as you pointed out. You also said "we have no clue" in another post. Given the nature of PLAN program never give such information openly or even any internal document leaked, I would say that the alleged price of 055 is baseless at this stage, therefor does not deserve reference.

 

[PiSigma]

LOL so in your mind all the other new destroyers in the world are overpriced but the alleged quoted price of the 055 is just right.

Its most likely to do with exchange rate.
Some things are cheap in China like labour. While equipment would cost pretty much the same anywhere, maybe 20% cheaper in China.

Once you break it down labor vs equipment, its probably very close.

 

[Iron Man]

View attachment 40046

集合X，S，C，米波等集一身，4套盾，16面阵！

055 has X, S, C, and Meter Wave band radars; 4 sets of wave panels, total 16 panels

Not sure who you're quoting from but X and C have identical functions on warships.

If we assume 8m of 055 is something accurate. What do you guess it would be referring to? 8m being hull draft compared with 6.xm (even 6.9m) would be too much for 055? Or the 8m figure is very off.

Did more research on Arleigh Burke. The navigational draft is 31ft (9.4m). The hull draft (as represented by the draft limit) is 22ft (6.7m). I think the 8m figure is more likely to represent the hull draft, but TBH this seems too much, and may not be accurate.

To be fair, all others' prices are quoted from open sources. The price of 055 is alleged as you pointed out. You also said "we have no clue" in another post. Given the nature of PLAN program never give such information openly or even any internal document leaked, I would say that the alleged price of 055 is baseless at this stage, therefor does not deserve reference.

Actually this is exactly my point. IMO this alleged figure is just pure speculation and does not need to be given any sort of weight at all.

 

[taxiya]

Did more research on Arleigh Burke. The navigational draft is 31ft (9.4m). The hull draft (as represented by the draft limit) is 22ft (6.7m). I think the 8m figure is more likely to represent the hull draft, but TBH this seems too much, and may not be accurate.


Actually this is exactly my point. IMO this alleged figure is just pure speculation and does not need to be given any sort of weight at all.

It may still be accurate or close, if 8m is the hull draft of full displacement while 6.7m of Arleigh Burke is not fully loaded, 7.xm full.

 

[latenlazy]

LOL so in your mind all the other new destroyers in the world are overpriced but the alleged quoted price of the 055 is just right.

No? For various reasons we've observed consistently that Chinese weapons procurement costs tend to be lower than comparable systems in other countries. The quoted price for the 055 isn't outside the realm of possibility. There could be many reasons why. It's not outlandish to consider that part of the reason is just that procurement can be less efficient in other countries.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I still find this number hard to believe given the extremes of sensor integration we are seeing on this ship. Hull/mast integration essentially quadruples the cost of many of the sensors, which are easily the most costly of all the components of a warship. And yet this ship is supposed to be less than half the cost of an Arleigh Burke?


Yes, software matters a lot. Shocking.


The metric EW radars could be referring to the rectangular blocks that intersperse the IFF arrays. That makes perfect sense, actually. X-band firewall is obviously some kind of mistranslation, but he may be referring to an X-band MFR that's been speculated to be on the 055, the most obvious candidate being the biggest panel on each face of the main mast.


"Fleet command system" clearly refers to a cruiser-type function that has not been stated to be aboard the 052C/D destroyer. It would also obviously necessitate a CEC-type network for it to work.


One thing Henri forgot is that HQ-26 wouldn't just be good for ballistic missiles, but also useful as an LEO ASAT missile, which in the case of a war against high tech enemies would very much be a useful asset.


Clearly the 0.85m refers to the internal width of the VLS canister not the empty VLS slot itself.


This must be a reference to an MRSAM, since the 055 will already have an LRSAM (HHQ-9B) and an SRSAM (HHQ-10). DK-10A?


I'm not sure where he is getting his numbers from here. The 056 is larger than other 1,000t ships and the 052D is larger than other 6,000t ships (e.g. French FREMM).


It should be noted that even in this article the 055 is described as having cruiser-type functions ("fleet command") that have not been used to describe 052C/D, so regardless of what it's named, a cruiser by any other name.... would still smell like a cruiser.

The only argument I have with your point is the cost of type 55 Of course nobody know for sure
But Chinese commercial ships are generally cost less than their western counterpart . Heck they are the lowest cost shipyard even in Asia
So half price of Arleigh Burke is not fantasy. Average Sr Electrical engineer salary in US probably around 120,000$ In China probably less than half of that

Another thing is the Chinese software development. In the argument about AESA and PESA you argue that the shortcoming of PESA can be compensated by better software assuming that Chinese has lower skill of software development.

Now we have proof that their skill is probably on par with the best in west since they reduce the number of hardware sensor and implement the same function it with software

Now about anti missile HQ26 I don't agree with Henri K It might not be installed initially in the first ships But it was under development for many years So yeah as long as the missile fit the new CUVLS they will implement it in the latter model for sure

As far as category ship, he doesn't mean literal number 1000 it could meant 1000 to 2000 so he is not that far off
Destroyer , Cruiser? well the US classify Ticonderoga still as destroyer and some of the European ship are classify as fregate when by tonnage they are clearly should be called destroyer. It is just a name

 

[Blitzo]

Here is a

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about 055.

I don't understand why it quoted Russian media about the specification. It is not like it can be hidden for long, especially number of VLS can not be hidden. Tonnage and lengths etc. maybe.

Anyway, here is the spec used.
Length: 183 meters
Beam: 22 meters
Draught: 8 meters (full or standard displacement?)
Displacement (standard): 9000 tonnes
Displacement (full): 12300 tonnes
Top speed: 32 knots
Crew: 310
VLS: 64 + 64

The two guests did not comment on the specifications. They are 滕建群 (Teng Jianqun) and ？卫东. I can not figure out the family name of the second guest. Teng Jianqun used to serve in the navy and now is a researcher in international and military affairs, receiving special allowance from the state counsel.

specs from state media don't mean much if they're quoting foreign media imo. I would take those numbers with a grain of salt

 

[Blitzo]

I venture to ask if this:

could be a three-band radar (as in for example S/C/X)?

(the view comes from

which I now watched)

probably not. I doubt all three are radar arrays. One of them might be.