CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[damitch300]

That 2nd mockup is surely a hotel or something.
There is a "resort" and hotel next to it.
Dont think such a location will be build next to that kinda stuff while intended to be militairy...

 

[Jeff Head]

Not necessarily. If everything else except ski ramp and cats is the same as the 001/A class, then I would definitely call it a "001B" and not a "002".

That's exactly why I made it clear in my post...which you just quoted...that the big issue is whether or not that bow if flat or a ski-jump or not.

If it is flat, then that definitely implies cats, and would be a new class in any case...which would make it what folks around here call 002.

 

[Sczepan]

this is the

That 2nd mockup is surely a hotel or something.
There is a "resort" and hotel next to it.
Dont think such a location will be build next to that kinda stuff while intended to be militairy...

so let's forgot this

 

[Jeff Head]

According to the user who posted the satellite image on CJDBY, this mock-up is not the original, and is at a different location, though it is still in Wuhan. He says that it is at "木兰湖边“, by Mulan Lake.

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It took me about 30 seconds to find.

Find it yourself here:

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CO-ORDINATES:
31°06'59.2"N 114°27'51.8"E

GREAT DIG! Way to go. Thanks for finding the exact location there.

 

[Iron Man]

May be, the second mockup that we found north of Wuhan on Lake Mulan is obsolet. There is no intention to build a third Liaoning with slight improvements to Type 001A. Then the designation Type 001B will not be needed.

How do you know there is no intention to build a 'Liaoningesque' 3rd carrier, except with cats instead of a ski jump? The rumor that they may actually be building CV-18 right now suggests to me that it is entirely possible they just want to get as many carriers online as possible, which means this carrier could easily be based off a further-modified CV-17 for the sake of expediency rather than evaluating the performance of the CV-16 and designing an entire different/larger carrier class based on operational experience with the Liaoning. I don't see how or why the PLAN would just build a brand new class that is significantly different from the Liaoning series without giving itself the benefit of having some significant operational experience with the Liaoning first and seeing what and how it could scale up and improve on in a subsequent carrier class. In the end, whether the third carrier should be called "001B" or "002" is simply a reflection of how different from CV-17 you or I believe CV-18 will be. So you can call it "002" all you want; I'm still going to call it "CV-18" because with this designator I don't need to make a decision on how similar it will be to CV-17, simply because I don't know. And neither do you.

 

[Jeff Head]

Well, in my book...and way of thinking...if it is CATOBAR and not STOBAR, that in itself is a significant difference. Different flight deck. Different plumbing to allow for the CATs (because I believe they will almost certinly be steam cats at first). Different deck operations. different flight patterns, particularly departing the arrier. The Fly-ops will be different. Probably be a new propulsion.

Anyhow, Iron Man, as you say, people can call it whatever they want...but if the Chinese build an indigenous CATOBAR carrier, in my book that is a new class itself.

 

[Iron Man]

Well, in my book...and way of thinking...if it is CATOBAR and not STOBAR, that in itself is a significant difference. Different flight deck. Different plumbing to allow for the CATs (because I believe they will almost certinly be steam cats at first). Different deck operations. different flight patterns, particularly departing the arrier. The Fly-ops will be different. Probably be a new propulsion.

Anyhow, Iron Man, as you say, people can call it whatever they want...but if the Chinese build an indigenous CATOBAR carrier, in my book that is a new class itself.

These differences of opinion are why I am and have been calling China's third carrier "CV-18", because pretty much nobody will disagree with this nomenclature. In the end it doesn't matter what any of us think of the significance of a catapult addition to an otherwise Liaoning carrier. It only matters what the PLAN thinks of it. It is also unknown whether or not they will build upon their knowledge of the Liaoning class in a more gradual, stepwise fashion, or strike out into entirely new carrier construction designs with what little operational knowledge they have gleaned from the Liaoning so far. With so many unknowns, there is no reason for me to call this carrier anything other than CV-18 until more information is publically available.

 

[Jeff Head]

These differences of opinion are why I am and have been calling China's third carrier "CV-18", because pretty much nobody will disagree with this nomenclature. In the end it doesn't matter what any of us think of the significance of a catapult addition to an otherwise Liaoning carrier. It only matters what the PLAN thinks of it. It is also unknown whether or not they will build upon their knowledge of the Liaoning class in a more gradual, stepwise fashion, or strike out into entirely new carrier construction designs with what little operational knowledge they have gleaned from the Liaoning so far. With so many unknowns, there is no reason for me to call this carrier anything other than CV-18 until more information is publically available.

Those of us who have been nvolved here for the last 10+ yeaars have heard a lot of talk out of China, some of it directly from their military, which has basically indicated that the would:

1. Rework the Varyag into an operational carrier, which we were saying here when a lot of western analysts were still scoffing at it and buying the Casino cover.

2. Build a 2nd STOBAR arrier that is a Chinese version of the LIaoning/Kuznetsov class.

3. Proceed from their to build a CATOBAR class carrier approaching 90,000 tons and probably conventional power but with cats. Some differ here on whether those would be steam or electromagnetic cats...I believe they will be steam becasue they are not ready to make that leap. Some also wonder whether there will be one or two of these. I say two because t matches their here to fore careful plan of getting two vessels and maximizing their logistics and training even if they are not going to build a bunch serially.

4. Proceed after the conventional CATOBAR to a karger nuclear powered COATOBAR.

Most of us here have viewed 1 and 2 of the same class, 001, with Lioaning being 001, and the second being 001A.

Most of us believe that the first CATOBAR conventional carriers would be a separate class, hence the 002.

Finally, when they go nuclear, most of us believe that will be another class 003, which is probably the one they will build several of, using that design to replace the 001 and 001A as they go out of service.

Anyhow, that's a brief legacy of SD's long history with looking at the Chinese carriers, listening to the chatter, listening to what CHinese offiials have said, and then watching what happens.

I believe those four steps are going to be pretty close to this day.

But we shall see...time always tells.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Those of us who have been nvolved here for the last 10+ yeaars have heard a lot of talk out of China, some of it directly from their military, which has basically indicated that the would:

1. Rework the Varyag into an operational carrier, which we were saying here when a lot of western analysts were still scoffing at it and buying the Casino cover.

2. Build a 2nd STOBAR arrier that is a Chinese version of the LIaoning/Kuznetsov class.

3. Proceed from their to build a CATOBAR class carrier approaching 90,000 tons and probably conventional power but with cats. Some differ here on whether those would be steam or electromagnetic cats...I believe they will be steam becasue they are not ready to make that leap. Some also wonder whether there will be one or two of these. I say two because t matches their here to fore careful plan of getting two vessels and maximizing their logistics and training even if they are not going to build a bunch serially.

4. Proceed after the conventional CATOBAR to a karger nuclear powered COATOBAR.

Most of us here have viewed 1 and 2 of the same class, 001, with Lioaning being 001, and the second being 001A.

Most of us believe that the first CATOBAR conventional carriers would be a separate class, hence the 002.

Finally, when they go nuclear, most of us believe that will be another class 003, which is probably the one they will build several of, using that design to replace the 001 and 001A as they go out of service.

Anyhow, that's a brief legacy of SD's long history with looking at the Chinese carriers, listening to the chatter, listening to what CHinese offiials have said, and then watching what happens.

I believe those four steps are going to be pretty close to this day.

But we shall see...time always tells.

My thoughts as well brutha ... And as far as this image is concern, if it is indeed a mockup of a future vessel as oppose to a children's playground, casino, baseball field or some other nonsense, then I'm thinking it's an actual future CV unlike liaoning or her sister ship currently being built.

We've always speculated that the Liaoning 'class' will consists of either 2 or 3 ship... I'm thinking it's just two now. With the advancement made in naval technologies and PLAN's ambition not to mention seemingly unlimited budget it would be foolish for PLAN to built a 3rd carrier based on a 30 something yr old pre Soviet carrier design when they have all the tools and resources to build a 80k flat deck carrier with all the bells and whistles.

My humble opinion of course!

 

[Iron Man]

Those of us who have been nvolved here for the last 10+ yeaars have heard a lot of talk out of China, some of it directly from their military, which has basically indicated that the would:

1. Rework the Varyag into an operational carrier, which we were saying here when a lot of western analysts were still scoffing at it and buying the Casino cover.

2. Build a 2nd STOBAR arrier that is a Chinese version of the LIaoning/Kuznetsov class.

3. Proceed from their to build a CATOBAR class carrier approaching 90,000 tons and probably conventional power but with cats. Some differ here on whether those would be steam or electromagnetic cats...I believe they will be steam becasue they are not ready to make that leap. Some also wonder whether there will be one or two of these. I say two because t matches their here to fore careful plan of getting two vessels and maximizing their logistics and training even if they are not going to build a bunch serially.

4. Proceed after the conventional CATOBAR to a karger nuclear powered COATOBAR.

Most of us here have viewed 1 and 2 of the same class, 001, with Lioaning being 001, and the second being 001A.

Most of us believe that the first CATOBAR conventional carriers would be a separate class, hence the 002.

Finally, when they go nuclear, most of us believe that will be another class 003, which is probably the one they will build several of, using that design to replace the 001 and 001A as they go out of service.

Anyhow, that's a brief legacy of SD's long history with looking at the Chinese carriers, listening to the chatter, listening to what CHinese offiials have said, and then watching what happens.

I believe those four steps are going to be pretty close to this day.

But we shall see...time always tells.

I have not heard of any Chinese civilian or military officials giving any specifics about which of China's carriers will have what technologies. If they had, we wouldn't be speculating right now. Also, which big shrimps have definitively come down on saying which carriers would have what technologies? I haven't heard of them being specific either. If you have heard otherwise, which one has said what exactly? Outside of these two groups, the rest of us are all the same in terms of opinion, i.e. we're all just guessing.