Miscellaneous News

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Yesterday my Dutch paper,
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, had an article about it that said the emergency city manager tried to save $12 million by taking the acid water from the river instead of the Detroit water. The acid corroded the lead water supply pipes and so poisoned the population. Replacing the damaged pipes is said to cost $1.5 billion.
The knew about this within a few weeks of making the change to the River.

People began complaining. They did tests to show the issue and it showed too much lead.

Because politicians were involved with the decision, they wanted more tests to see if there were any other causes and they got other opinions. They treated it like a political football around Flint for a few months. some of the local politicians were even filmed drinking the water to try and who it was okay.

But it wasn't and ultimately the state got involved...and it was more politics.

Finally, it was so obvious that the new solution was not working that they could not ignore or it any longer and the switched back to the Lake water.

But by that time the piping had been corroded enough that the problem did not go away. Now they are going to have to do some MAJOR repair work on the infrastructure itself.

Look, I am all for innovative ideas to try and save tax payer money. but if it does not work and if there is a problem...particularly with safety...you immediately simply announce that you tried by that conditions will not allow for it and you step back from it. Then you go back to the LAke.

That did not happen here and so the problem, which early on could have been solved by simply going back to the more expensive Lake Water, ended up causing more serious problems to the piping itself.

Someone should be held accountable for it by investigating what happened after the initial reports and why there was not an immediate return to the working and safe solution. The people who made those decisions need to be held accountable for them...probably civilly and through big fines.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
"Flint did not return to Detroit water until October 2015 after tests showed elevated levels of lead, which can cause brain damage and other health problems, in Flint tap water and in some children. Corrosive water from the river, known locally as a dumping ground, caused more lead to leach from Flint pipes than Detroit water did."


"What I don' understand is why did the water pipes themselves contain lead"?
Remember the outcry when lead was discovered in Chinese ceramics, paints, crayons etc and leaded petrol
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
"Flint did not return to Detroit water until October 2015 after tests showed elevated levels of lead, which can cause brain damage and other health problems, in Flint tap water and in some children. Corrosive water from the river, known locally as a dumping ground, caused more lead to leach from Flint pipes than Detroit water did."


"What I don' understand is why did the water pipes themselves contain lead"?
Remember the outcry when lead was discovered in Chinese ceramics, paints, crayons etc and leaded petrol

A lot of old buildings in the U.S. contain asbestos and lead back when regulation was loose. During the fifties the gas company even tried to advertise leaded gasoline as safe!
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I argue the opposite. It is because the US is a developed nation and has been one for such a long time that things like these happens.

This would not be an issue to a country who gets their water from wells or rivers and has no industry to speak off to contaminate such sources.
We have infrastructure issues and much of these lead came from gasoline from many decades ago (when gas was no UNLEADED).. that has sine seep into the ground and contaminated the water.

Same holds true for medication. Much of the water in the US is actually contaminated with drugs especially perscription drugs when people/companies just flush hundreds of tons down the toilet.

I am very cognizant on where or how I dispose of expired or unnused medication. You have to bascially incinerate them but millions of people flush them down the toilet or just throw them out with their garbage,.

Actually waste water from toilets are separated from the waste water from showers, hand sinks, and washing machines. When waste water from toilets enter the water treatment plants they put in these types of bacteria (such as Rid X in commercials) that eats these solid fecal matter to clean the water JUST ENOUGH to be put back to the environment of rivers or oceans. Now, why do they do this? Because soapy water from showers and sinks could kill these waste eating bacteria that the treatment plants relied on. It's SOP all over the US and in other developed and non-developed nations (although limited).
 

delft

Brigadier
On the corrosion of the Flint water supply pipes:
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Here's how that toxic lead gets into Flint water
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By
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on October 07, 2015 at 2:23 PM, updated October 07, 2015 at 2:25 PM
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flint water
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FLINT, MI -- Tests show water leaving Flint's treatment plant is lead free, but by the time it reaches the tap, it sometimes has elevated levels of lead, and here's why.

Since April 2014, the city has drawn raw water from the Flint River before treating it at its plant on Dort Highway.

Water is pumped into pipes that carry it to about 31,000 homes and businesses in the city, an estimated half of which have individual lead service lines.

Water from Lake Huron, which the city had purchased from Detroit since the 1960s, was far less corrosive than water that's being produced from the river today, according to researchers from Virginia Tech university.

The city's own testing has also shown
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since the city began using the Flint River as its water source. Virginia Tech testing has shown 10 percent of homes tested across the city had 25 parts per billion of lead or more -- far more than the allowable level -- 15 ppb -- set in federal guidelines.

As Flint River water contacts lead, particularly in areas where water is stagnant, it leaches into the water supply inside homes and businesses. Lead can leach from service lines and plumbing materials, including fixtures, faucets and fittings, according to the DEQ.

Although DEQ Director Dan Wyant said last week that Flint had a plan in place for corrosion control when the switch to the river was made, city and state officials have said previously that those plans were never fully developed as they waited on the results of two rounds of water testing inside city homes.

Last month, Flint Mayor Dayne Walling said the city was
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for making the city's water less corrosive.

The city has not yet spelled out what actions will be put in place to better control corrosion, but Richard Benzie, chief of field operations in the DEQ Office of Drinking Water and Municipal Assistance, has said plans typically involve the addition of supplements such as phosphates at the treatment plant.

Walling has also asked the state for $10 million to begin a program of removing lead service lines in the city, but the DEQ says it would likely take up to 15 years to complete the job of replacing them -- "Even if many crews were contracted."
 

delft

Brigadier
Actually waste water from toilets are separated from the waste water from showers, hand sinks, and washing machines. When waste water from toilets enter the water treatment plants they put in these types of bacteria (such as Rid X in commercials) that eats these solid fecal matter to clean the water JUST ENOUGH to be put back to the environment of rivers or oceans. Now, why do they do this? Because soapy water from showers and sinks could kill these waste eating bacteria that the treatment plants relied on. It's SOP all over the US and in other developed and non-developed nations (although limited).
That might be SOP all over the US for new plants but I guess more than 90% is from before the introduction of this practice.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I'm a little surprised no one has posted this news yet

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Mystery still surrounds the deadly attack by Islamist militants on an African Union (AU) base in Somalia last Friday.

Residents of the south-western el-Ade town were the first to break the news, saying al-Shabab fighters arrived at dawn.

The raid began with an explosion by a suicide car bomber at the gates of the base after which dozens of gunmen followed, shooting as they went.

Eyewitnesses said dozens of Kenyan soldiers were killed while others ran away into the bush.

But this was not the version of events that was given by the Kenyan military.

The base on the outskirts of town is made up of two military camps - one housing the Somalia national army and the other for a contingent of Kenyan troops.

A few hours after the attack began, Col David Obonyo, the Kenya's defence force spokesman, insisted it was the Somali camp that had been hit - and that Kenyan troops had rushed to its defence.

However, a Somali government official disputed this and told the BBC that it was actually the Kenyan-manned section that was raided.

More on al-Shabab:

In the days since the attack, there have been no reports of Somali military casualties and no indication that Somali soldiers were even present at the time of the attack.

Kenya's Chief of Defence Forces General Samson Mwathethe now says the attackers used three powerful car bombs at the entrances to the two adjacent camps.

A Somali general has told the BBC the Kenyan military had been warned of an impending al-Shabab attack. General Abas Ibrahim Gurey told the BBC "clear and reliable intelligence" had been passed on 45 days before the jihadist fighters struck.

Al-Shabab has always insisted that the Kenyans were their target, and claimed to have taken "complete control" of the camp and seized weapons and vehicles.

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Image copyrightUPDATED SEPTEMBER 2015
El-Ade residents said the fighters had hoisted their flags in the Kenyan section and were parading the bodies of the dead Kenyans, sending out media statements that 60 soldiers had been killed.

Human shields
However, an official figure for those killed is still not known. The military is still investigating the incident and says it will even require DNA testing to identify the bodies of the Kenyan soldiers.

Image copyrightAFP
Image captionKenya contributes about 4,000 troops to the 22,000-strong AU force in Somalia
On Sunday, four injured Kenyan soldiers were airlifted to Nairobi for medical treatment, followed by another 16, who Col Obonyo said were mostly suffering from trauma.

Defence Minister Raychelle Omamo gave the first lead regarding numbers on Monday, saying the group affected by the attack was a "company-sized force", which could be anything between 80 and 250 men.

By then al-Shabab was saying it had killed 100 Kenyans.

The militant group, linked to al-Qaeda, said its figures had gone up as its fighters had pursued some of the soldiers who fled.

On Tuesday, a Somali official told the BBC that 13 Kenyan soldiers who had escaped during the raid had shown up in another town in the south-western Gedo region.

The men were said to have arrived on foot and appeared traumatised.

The official said they were in safe hands and would be handed over to the Kenyan contingent of the AU's military mission.

In response to Friday's attack, Kenyan military planes are said to be bombing in Gedo, although it is not clear who or what they are targeting.

Kenya's military chief General Samson Mwathethe said it was a delicate operation as al-Shabab was using the captured Kenyan soldiers as human shields.

Photo war
The militants have added insult to injury by leading the way in the propaganda battle.

On Wednesday, the group released what it says are photos of the scene of the attack.

The images, which the BBC cannot independently verify, show damaged vehicles, abandoned caches of arms and gory pictures of dead soldiers in Kenya's army uniform.

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Image copyrightPhoto released by al-Shabab
Image captionThe BBC cannot independently verify the photos released by al-Shabab of the el-Ede attack
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Image copyrightPhoto released by al-Shabab
Image captionAl-Shabab sent out more than 100 photos it says were taken in the aftermath of the attack
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Image copyrightPhoto released by al-Shabab
Image captionAl-Shabab says this is a photo of militants looking through boxes of supplies at the el-Ade camp
The government had already said it would take legal action against anyone who shared photos of its dead soldiers.

Interior Minister Joseph Nkaissery said this was necessary to avoid "amplifying the terrorist agenda through sharing of photos and sympathising with the terrorists".

And it held to its threat,
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such photos on the messaging service WhatsApp.

The Kenyan military says it will only release official figures when the ongoing search-and-rescue operation is complete and family members of the dead have been informed.

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Image copyrightAFP
Image captionKenya says a search and rescue operation is still ongoing in Somalia's Gedo region
However, some of these relatives, who have flocked to military bases around Kenya to find out the fate of their loved ones, have complained that the military is keeping them in the dark.

Kenya contributes about 4,000 troops to the 22,000-strong AU force in Somalia.

President Kenyatta says the attack - the heaviest the Kenyans have suffered since their arrival in Somalia in 2011 - will not affect its mission and will only strengthen their resolve to achieve regional peace.

But the images that are likely to stick with Kenyans are those of four flag-draped coffins of dead soldiers who arrived in Nairobi on Monday night in the full view of the media.

A sizeable military based overran, over a hundred soldiers killed, and significant amounts of weapons and equipment captured by Al-Q affiliated terrorists.

That's pretty major news.

Anyone got much more details on what happened and how it happened?

Seems more than a little odd and concerning that a military disaster of such proportions was allowed to happen in the first place.

Also, does anyone have a location for where the PLA combat battalion is deployed in Sudan?
 
The knew about this within a few weeks of making the change to the River.

People began complaining. They did tests to show the issue and it showed too much lead.

...

The people who made those decisions need to be held accountable for them...probably civilly and through big fines.

If there is any time for a criminal case this should be such an occasion big time.
 
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