Exactly, and a little more of a good thing, is a lot better than a whole lot of nothing!
F-22 Raptor Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Exactly, and a little more of a good thing, is a lot better than a whole lot of nothing!
Besides the reversal of position on the Raptor, that would, however, also require the politicly/psychologicly sensitive decision to, for the time being, forego the "leap" in generation. About 35-40 years after the last one. That, in practice, may or may not be a pedantic argument as to wether the "generation" is associated with the airframe, or the stuff "on/in" it. I'm not sure were I am on this myself right now. In those very first design concepts, there doesn't seem to be something revolutionary yet. Who knows what people will come up with over the next ten years.
Being that early in the process, the 6th gen could still become something LRS-B like. Sensible in terms of affoardability, not pushing the limits.
I certainly agree the next airframe has to be built in larger numbers, as Eagles / Strike Eagles will need replacements by that time. And I don't think F-35s can cover all of it. A few hundred two-engined, medium-large sized aircraft will be required.
Brumby
Major
I agree with the notion of a LRSB like program i.e. incremental based on existing technologies and not revolutionary. It boils down to how the project is packaged and marketed but also substantially being affordable. The biggest problem is the insufficient inventory of F-22's due to truncation and potentially opens up a capability gap in numbers with the pursuance of a 6th gen program and the timetable associated with it. There is no logical reason to be fixated on a gen to gen development path as opposed to an incremental upgrade path.
Merci beaucoup
So WVR was also won by the Raptor on this occasion. In previous engagements Rafale had managed to score WVR kills IIRC. When it comes to BVR I think there is only 1 BVR (declassified) kill of an F-22 by a EA-18G and the EF-Typhoon had managed to avoid BVR kills once or twice.
You see in visual Range a heavy fighter as F-22 to ~ 5 km let's in fact very short time with speed in A2A combat mach 1.5/2 you need fire very fast AAM IR normaly and after fire with the gun and at this time even in 2016 as in WWI mainly the Jedy do the difference
You can see even the state of the art F-22 get a gun, remenber F-4 during Vietnam War without, after lessons... USAF mounted a gun in pod on.
More the gun's diameter is big more it is powerful but in particular US fighters get more rounds/bursts.
Very subtle air combat many fighters types, many scenarios, many results possible an example a small Grippen get some chances even more vs a Su-27 less good radar but less identifiable ...
Hyperwarp
Captain
F-22 from the start along with the YF-23 were designed with future expansion. IIRC the Raptor has room for 3 CIPs (Central Integrated Processors). Only 1 or 2 slots are actually used. With some effort the computing power of the Raptor can be increased a lot.
Finally the Raptor will be getting AIM-9X. It should have got AIM-9X, HMD, and long time ago, but someone in the US defense establishment decided otherwise *SHRUG*
Finally the Raptor will be getting AIM-9X. It should have got AIM-9X, HMD, and long time ago, but someone in the US defense establishment decided otherwise *SHRUG*
Exactly, and I would upgrade the Raptor with the F-135s or next gen more fuel efficient engines, probably forget OVT, and work on more efficient nozzles for a higher supercruise, HMS, and basically import most of the F-35s systems and inter-operability. Even the re-surrection of the YF-23 would keep us at the top of the heap until some decisive 6 gen genesis arrived? Actually LockMarts AFX does look a lot like the YF-23 configuration, and that would be a fine platform going forward.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Some what OT, but I think, this the right place -
F-22s stillborn fraternal twin the YF-23. Absolutely stunning bird, but sadly there was room only for one them in the USAF and ultimately YF-22 prevailed. Still, to this day, YF-23 is my all-time favorite, followed by the F-22:
Love the dramatic music in the video too.
F-22s stillborn fraternal twin the YF-23. Absolutely stunning bird, but sadly there was room only for one them in the USAF and ultimately YF-22 prevailed. Still, to this day, YF-23 is my all-time favorite, followed by the F-22:
Love the dramatic music in the video too.
US fighters have mainly 20 mm Gun Gatling system a rotary gun with 6 barrel these rotary guns allow a more big rate of fire and the fighters carry 480/910 rounds, 480 for F-22's M61A2, more rounds/burst as others fighters which have in general about 100/200 shells but 20 mm shell is more small and less powerful, less explosive inside.
F-35 is different have a 25 mm with 5 barrel, GAU-12 Equalizer then more powerful as others US fighters guns butget clearly less rounds 180 for A, and only in a pod for B/C, 220 rounds.
F-22/M61A2 : 102 g projectile with 10,3% HEI content (~11 g) at 1.050 m/s muzzle velocity, 37 projectiles
in 0,5 seconds
F-35/GAU-22/A fires 184 g projectile with 16,7% HEI content (~31 g) at 1.040 m/s muzzle velocity
4,200 rounds per minute
For comparison Rafale by ex : GIAT 30 revolver cannon, 275 g projectile with 17,5% HEI content (~48 g) at 1.025 m/s muzzle velocity, fire 19 projectiles in 0,5 seconds
For B it's a matter of weight mainly coz STOL fighters and have also a less big payloads can' t armed internaly with 2000 lb bombs, only 1000.
For C interesting know USN didn' t request it internaly or other reason ?
The 2 internaly guns on F-35A and F-22 request 0.5 sec for fired time for open the trap doors
Exist a thread for A2A combat ? better for talk.
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I'm glad you asked, I recently started an Air Combat Maneuvering thread, and you concerns about guns, external vs internal would be welcome there. It is in the members club room.
