Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[Jura The idiot]

I looked at the last two pages here, noticed both sides pushed it hard LOL ... what I'll do now is to quickly translate (to the extent I can understand aircraft development which I can't) what I found on

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in a post dated December 14; it concerns some 2016 schedules:

• Т-50-8 finishing the assembly, reworking the fuel system, transferring to FTS 20.01.2016, flutter tests 27.01.-01.02.2016, coating 25.02.-25.03.2016, the first flight 15.04.2016, delivery 22.04.2016.
• Т-50-9 putting detachable wing parts on 10.02.2016, engines 10.03.2016, transferring to FTS 20.03.2016.
• Т-50-10 until 15.01.2016 obtaining fuselage parts, fuselage docks, transferring for final assembly, putting detachable wing parts on 01.03.2016, transferring to FTS 30.03.2016.
• Т-50-11 obtaining the center section, fuselage, transferring for final assembly until 01.03.2016, putting detachable wing parts on 10.04.2016, coating 15.05.2016.

It could be interesting to see later in the coming year what actually happened, as I found this schedule (or hoax!?) reposted in Russian Internet while looking for fresh PAKFA news.

just for me (the worst part are acronyms, hope I'll remember this post
ОЧК = Отьёмная Часть Крыла
РПП = радиопоглощающее покрытие

 

[Brumby]

some 2016 schedules:

• Т-50-8 finishing the assembly, reworking the fuel system, transferring to FTS 20.01.2016, flutter tests 27.01.-01.02.2016, coating 25.02.-25.03.2016, the first flight 15.04.2016, delivery 22.04.2016.
• Т-50-9 putting detachable wing parts on 10.02.2016, engines 10.03.2016, transferring to FTS 20.03.2016.
• Т-50-10 until 15.01.2016 obtaining fuselage parts, fuselage docks, transferring for final assembly, putting detachable wing parts on 01.03.2016, transferring to FTS 30.03.2016.
• Т-50-11 obtaining the center section, fuselage, transferring for final assembly until 01.03.2016, putting detachable wing parts on 10.04.2016, coating 15.05.2016.

It could be interesting to see later in the coming year what actually happened, as I found this schedule (or hoax!?) reposted in Russian Internet while looking for fresh PAKFA news.

I am happy to see how this might pan out although I am sceptical because of the timeline involved just to reconstitute T-50-5. I would believe it when I see it and not sooner because the track record to-date doesn't project such confidence.


History tells us that it took almost 45 months to produce the 5 prototypes (T-50-1 to T-50-5) with nothing coming forth in 2014 and 2015.
We have somehow to suspend doubt that within the next 6 to 7 months we will see delivery of 4 additional prototypes (T-50-8 to T-50-11). There is simply no evidence so far from this program that such production capability exist.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I giggled when I saw a member as recently as February this year claim that the T-50 will somehow carry four missiles per bay. Let me give you some facts. The following excerpt is pulled from Wikipedia, and its cited using quite reliable sources (Air International, AviationWeek, flateric and flanker from Secret Projects).

The T-50 has two tandem main internal weapon bays each approximately 4.6 m (15.1 ft) long and 1.0 m (3.3 ft) wide and two small triangular-section weapon bays that protrudes under the fuselage near the wing root.

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is developing two ejection launchers for the main bays: the UVKU-50L for missiles weighing up to 300 kg (660 lb) and the UVKU-50U for ordinance weighing up to 700 kg (1,500 lb). The aircraft has an internally mounted 9A1-4071K (

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) 30 mm cannon near the right LEVCON root.

There is at most room for three K-77M missiles in each bay, and currently, they only plan on having two of those missiles per bay. While the T-50 is capable of carrying a total of 4 Phoenix-size missiles (two per bay), in terms of quantity the air-to-air loadout of the T-50 will be no more than the F-22.

The T-50 will have little difference from the F-22 in terms of speed performance. The T-50 is limited to Mach 2 due to its materials, and I think the F-22 is also operationally limited at that speed. The T-50 does have greater range due to greater internal fuel capacity. It will also probably have the advantage in maneuverability in pitch and especially in yaw due to LEVCON and canted TVC, but rolling acceleration may be worse because of the bigger inertia from widely spaced engines.

...

... found something related today:

comes from the Spanish blog:

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[tphuang]

Can we settle this argument by say that Russia plans to have it in service by 2017, but that may not happen if they encounter further issues?

J-20 certainly moved forward a lot more than people expected in past 2 years. I personally think it's unlikely PAK-Fa will hit service by 2017, but back 2 years ago I also wouldn't have thought J-20 would be at LRIP stage now.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I am happy to see how this might pan out although I am sceptical because of the timeline involved just to reconstitute T-50-5. I would believe it when I see it and not sooner because the track record to-date doesn't project such confidence.

...

I recalled I had translated a Russian popular article about PAKFA here, now finally located it:
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/pak-fa-fgfa-discussions.t7155/page-18#post-322468
Jan 11, 2015

...

Five Secrets of T-50​

The T-50 (ПАК ФА) will start to be delivered during the next year (which would be 2016).
...
New engines expected in 2020, with the thrust increased by 25 to 30%.
...

... etc. etc. and one year after, it doesn't sound that off ... or it does?

(by the way it contains pretty much all I know about PAKFA

 

[Air Force Brat]

New U.S. Stealth Jet Can’t Fire Its Gun Until 2019
America’s $400 billion Joint Strike Fighter, or F-35, is slated to join fighter squadrons next year—but missing software will render its 25mm cannon useless.
That means the F-35 will be almost entirely reliant on long-range air-to-air missiles. It doesn’t carry any short-range, dogfighting missiles like the Raytheon AIM-9X Sidewinder when it’s in a stealthy configuration. One pilot familiar with the F-35 added that “they will not have a large enough air-to-air [missile] load to be on the leading edge” of an air battle in any case.

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Its also possible that you might be biased as well? IMHO

My point is that at this time last year we were speculating on whether or not 055 would be rebuilt?? Actually 6-1 has been built using 055s wings, tail, etc, and has been designated 055 R. There was a lot of protestation that 055s fire had not set the program back?? (when very clearly it has)

In the meantime the F-35s 25mm gun has been fired and works rather well? So?? my point is that F-35s are being delivered to partner nations, their pilots and maintainers are actively engaged in training to bring their programs to operational status, and PAK-FA is still promising to fly 6-2 very shortly, and to begin fielding aircraft in 2017??

 

[Air Force Brat]

7 days with no PAK-FA is too looong! come Sukhoi, crank them babies OUT!

I am hopeful that we will be seeing 6-2 very soon, but I've been waiting a year???

 

[Brumby]

I am a bit confused with the nomenclature on this program especially in designating between stage 1 and 2. My understanding is as follows :

T-50-5R is a composite of T-50-6-1 (with parts drawn)
T-50-6-2 was built in parallel with T-50-6-1, the former being a stage 2 prototype thus making T-50-6-1 redundant (being a stage 1)
T-50-6-2 basically will be T-50-8 (first prototype of stage 2)
T-50-7 is a stage 2 static airframe

I understand from another forum, stage 2 airframe outer geometry will in most parts be the same as stage 1 but the internal structure had been reworked substantially. T-50-8 is expected sometime in May 2016.

 

[b787]

Its also possible that you might be biased as well? IMHO

My point is that at this time last year we were speculating on whether or not 055 would be rebuilt?? Actually 6-1 has been built using 055s wings, tail, etc, and has been designated 055 R. There was a lot of protestation that 055s fire had not set the program back?? (when very clearly it has)

In the meantime the F-35s 25mm gun has been fired and works rather well? So?? my point is that F-35s are being delivered to partner nations, their pilots and maintainers are actively engaged in training to bring their programs to operational status, and PAK-FA is still promising to fly 6-2 very shortly, and to begin fielding aircraft in 2017??

i am not biased, i have very good american friends, in fact i work for an american company, my boss is american, i have american family, well lots of them, my life will be affected more by what happens in the USA than in Russia.

However i am open, this year i told you Sukhoi reported the T-50-5 was going to be repaired, and i was right, not because i predicted it, but because i knew to trust official sources.

Same was the Su-35, i read China was in negotiations for the Su-35, i believed the report and i was right.

The cannibalization of T-50-6, is not official that is a forum gossip, you sometimes do not distinguish between gossips on Forums and official information, do not take me wrong people in forums make theories and later they believe them are facts.
The PAKFA program all the time has TV reports that say what happens much more like the YF-22 and F-22 program.

If the PAKFA program does not achieve by 2017 operational status they will say, because that is what they have done, they said originally that by 2016, the T-50 was going to enter service, it did not happen and all the Russian media reported it.

If you ask me about the F-35, i do not dislike it, is not my favorite aircraft, true, but it is not a fighter, it is an attack aircraft, and that is very limited, the only true fighter is the F-22, but sadly people think F-35 is great with those tiny wings, fat cross section and delicate skin.

The fact the F-16 can beat it show how important is Thrust vectoring and supercruise capability in stealth fighters highly compromised by un-aerodynamic features, but nationalism blinds people.

i believe this guy who happens to be american

By the way he is one of the guys who designed the F-16 and A-10

 

[b787]

happy new year according to PAKFA