Brumby, where is this study? I'd like to learn more.
Chinese Economics Thread
- Thread starter Norfolk
- Start date
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Not more of this ivory tower BS nonsense from the usual suspects again. 
Yes, there are problems and things that can be done better with the way China has grown and developed, but someone point me to a perfect society please?
In this imperfect world, the best we can do is comparatives, and comparatively speaking, the Chinese government has done an unparalleled job.
Certain people keep bring up wealth inequality as if that is a uniquely Chinese problem and use that to bash the Chinese system, when the poster child of the alternative has far worse problems with inequality.
Total
Number Country
425 United States
96 Russia
95 China
55 Germany
48 India
38 Hong Kong
36 Brazil
36 United Kingdom
34 Turkey
The 2014 Chinese GDP was $10tn, while it was $17.4tn for the US.
So, with 25% of China's populate and 1.7 times its GDP, the US has 4.5 times as many billionaires as China.
No matter how you cut it, the US has a far bigger inequality problem compared to China in terms of wealth inequality.
When the top 1% of your population has more wealth than the remaining 99% combined, you would think people would start asking questions about whether the system isn't as amazing as its advertised to be.
Comparing China to the other poster child of western economic orthodoxy, India, and if anything, things look far worse for the western model.
By and large, Indian has followed the western taught ideals of what a good developing economy should be, yet with a GDP of only $2tn, and roughly the same population, it has over half as many billionaires as China.
If you look at the number of people living in absolute poverty, the size and wealth of the middle classes, pretty much every indicator available, India is doing significantly worse economically compared to China. Both in how big the pie is and how evenly it is shared.
The biggest and most telling difference between the Chinese and western systems isn't some abstract ideological difference or party politics as western analysis obsess about, but rather about the flexibility and adaptability of the system itself.
Both the Chinese and western systems are far from perfect, but it is only the Chinese who seem to be willing and able to recognise and accept that their system needs improving, and make improvements.
The massive transformation of the Chinese economy and skyline was only possible because of even bigger reforms and changes within the CCP, and that change and reform is still going on today.
The west loves to paint President Xi's anti-corruption campaign in the worst possible light as some purge or power grab, but the reality is that he is trying to fundamentally change how the CCP does business.
Previously, the priority and emphasis was on growing the economy as fast as possible. Officials were allowed to steal a few crumbs so long as they worked to make sure the pie kept growing so everyone's share got bigger.
Now, the emphasis is shifting to efficiency and clean government.
Already, much of the corruption and excess the west used to love to report upon are a thing of the past, and ordinary Chinese people are seeing real changes with their own eyes in their own daily lives.
Things are far from perfect in China, but at least real progress is being made, which is far more than what can be said about the western world and their "first world problems".
Yes, there are problems and things that can be done better with the way China has grown and developed, but someone point me to a perfect society please?
In this imperfect world, the best we can do is comparatives, and comparatively speaking, the Chinese government has done an unparalleled job.
Certain people keep bring up wealth inequality as if that is a uniquely Chinese problem and use that to bash the Chinese system, when the poster child of the alternative has far worse problems with inequality.
Total
Number Country
425 United States
96 Russia
95 China
55 Germany
48 India
38 Hong Kong
36 Brazil
36 United Kingdom
34 Turkey
The 2014 Chinese GDP was $10tn, while it was $17.4tn for the US.
So, with 25% of China's populate and 1.7 times its GDP, the US has 4.5 times as many billionaires as China.
No matter how you cut it, the US has a far bigger inequality problem compared to China in terms of wealth inequality.
When the top 1% of your population has more wealth than the remaining 99% combined, you would think people would start asking questions about whether the system isn't as amazing as its advertised to be.
Comparing China to the other poster child of western economic orthodoxy, India, and if anything, things look far worse for the western model.
By and large, Indian has followed the western taught ideals of what a good developing economy should be, yet with a GDP of only $2tn, and roughly the same population, it has over half as many billionaires as China.
If you look at the number of people living in absolute poverty, the size and wealth of the middle classes, pretty much every indicator available, India is doing significantly worse economically compared to China. Both in how big the pie is and how evenly it is shared.
The biggest and most telling difference between the Chinese and western systems isn't some abstract ideological difference or party politics as western analysis obsess about, but rather about the flexibility and adaptability of the system itself.
Both the Chinese and western systems are far from perfect, but it is only the Chinese who seem to be willing and able to recognise and accept that their system needs improving, and make improvements.
The massive transformation of the Chinese economy and skyline was only possible because of even bigger reforms and changes within the CCP, and that change and reform is still going on today.
The west loves to paint President Xi's anti-corruption campaign in the worst possible light as some purge or power grab, but the reality is that he is trying to fundamentally change how the CCP does business.
Previously, the priority and emphasis was on growing the economy as fast as possible. Officials were allowed to steal a few crumbs so long as they worked to make sure the pie kept growing so everyone's share got bigger.
Now, the emphasis is shifting to efficiency and clean government.
Already, much of the corruption and excess the west used to love to report upon are a thing of the past, and ordinary Chinese people are seeing real changes with their own eyes in their own daily lives.
Things are far from perfect in China, but at least real progress is being made, which is far more than what can be said about the western world and their "first world problems".
Brumby
Major
I wasn't referring to "consider". You suggested I should have use "maybe worth" and what I actually used was "might be worth". This is a suggestive approach and set the tone for the rest of my comments.
Brumby
Major
My reference is from a book that quoted its source as :
Third plenum of the CPC: The agrarian reforms to alleviate social contradictions’ (20 October 2008), .
Out of curiosity, I decided to see how this all started...
India suffered a similar fate, but why don't we let our British noblemen explain?
But, enough comedy.
BTW, earlier still, there was the Dutch East India "Trading" Company, which plundered trillions from Indonesia. But, leave to the FREE PRESS™ to explain its fast fortune with "spice trade" and "tulip craze"
Reverse-engineering censorship in China: Randomized experimentation and participant observation
Note, one can complain, but don't form mass movements. They don't like crowds. And mass protest means five or more people. Westerners often assume it means 10000+
Oh rly? At the left of this chart is British Opium (drugs, you know, like..the war on drugs that the west cares so much about) Wars in China. To the right, is the result.
India suffered a similar fate, but why don't we let our British noblemen explain?
But, enough comedy.
BTW, earlier still, there was the Dutch East India "Trading" Company, which plundered trillions from Indonesia. But, leave to the FREE PRESS™ to explain its fast fortune with "spice trade" and "tulip craze"
No, it doesn't, at least according to a Harvard professor, Gary King.
Reverse-engineering censorship in China: Randomized experimentation and participant observation
Note, one can complain, but don't form mass movements. They don't like crowds. And mass protest means five or more people. Westerners often assume it means 10000+
Last edited:
Link is dead?
What is the book? That's odd though. Why would the 3rd plenum, assuming its true, admit to taking away farm land without providing adequate compensation?
Brumby
Major
The website link is not dead. I just went to it. It is in Chinese which I can't read. That's the best I can do for you. The book itself doesn't provide anything more besides what I quoted.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Interesting, 83.9% of China's billionaires made their fortune in the last 3 years, with close on half of them becoming billionaires in the last year alone.
The timing suggests that this sudden boom in Chinese billionaires is at least partly related to the global economic downturn and China's stimulus plans.
The Chinese government were obliged to pour vast amounts of money to keep China's economic growing when the western major economies were hobbled by the financial crisis.
The Chinese government effectively created a financial sector the size of America's in a few short years, and it looks like some people profited handsomely from that.
That, but itself is not necessarily an indication of any foul play or wrong doing, as the creating and development of the financial sector has always resulted in large concentrations of wealth and handsome profits, especially for those who's companies lists on the stock market.
Perhaps the recent stock market turbulence in China would have knocked a few Chinese billionaires off the list.
Although the timing of China's anti-corruption campaign is also very interesting, and would suggest at least some connection to this recent suddenly boom in billionaires.
It's dead Here's another proof from archive.org this time -
Wait..so you can't read Chinese and this link is dead, but you're commenting as if these accusations are facts? lol