054/A FFG Thread II

[Lion]

Only Vietnam and Phillippine are "against" China, and the rest of ASEAN are neutral or "kind of" on China side (particularly Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar)

Somehow people forget pattani class OPV and WS-1 rocket.

 

[timepass]

it would be difficult to pack more into the 053 series hull. the 053H3 was the upgraded version per Pakistani requirements and taken into PLAN service first because the Pakistani procurement process took so long. the only other version based on this hull currently been built is an OPV version C28A been built for Algeria. View attachment 7773 that's even less armed. you are not going to fit the HQ16 VLS plus fire control into the 053 hull.

Let me elaborate my previous post further where I said PN is looking for between F22P & 054A means something between 2500t to 3500t where PN can pack all necessary equipments & make FFG in the line of modern warfare.

 

[joshuatree]

By the way, instead of 054A, China offered Thailand 054 without many subsystems.

My gut feeling - that has less to do with China not offering subsystems and more to do with Thailand wanting to keep the subsystems on their ships as common as possible. They employ many Western subsystems.

 

[franco-russe]

In the past, the two Type 25T frigates (or frigate hulls) 421 NARESUAN and 422 TAKSIN were tailor-made by Zhonghua for Thailand in 1994-95, but were fitted almost exclusively with Western systems, including an impressive (for their size) 127 mm Mk.45 and LM-2500 gas turbines.

 

[asif iqbal]

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Hudong Will Launch Its 9th or 17th of Total 054A on April 27

Here is the Update

By the way, instead of 054A, China offered Thailand 054 without many subsystems.

If that is the case then China doesn't deserve to get the contract in the first place, if they compromised the deal and held back and did not offer what the customer asked for then they can't be expected to get any orders, bad business and unprofessional, it's not the way it works if you want to get into arms business

Also Chinese systems are usually very customer friendly and many sub systems can be fitted easily, there is little restriction in that sense so it can't be the reason

Whatever the reason is should be investigated and studied as to why a contract of this scale was lost, China can design and build any surface vessel to meet whatever are the need of the end customer, literally from scratch, it's a concern why it slipped people acceptable should be brought to question

 

[Jeff Head]

In the past, the two Type 25T frigates (or frigate hulls) 421 NARESUAN and 422 TAKSIN were tailor-made by Zhonghua for Thailand in 1994-95, but were fitted almost exclusively with Western systems, including an impressive (for their size) 127 mm Mk.45 and LM-2500 gas turbines.

Those frigates are very nice frigates and representative what a country like Thailand can do wih the vessels that were provided to them and then when they placed more capable "sub-systems" on them.

A Type 54 frigate, with its stealthier charcteristics, and larger size could do very well if provided as is and then outfitted with similar more modern and more capable sub-systems like they did for the Naresuan and her sister, Taksin.

Those vessels, which are baically modified Type 053 vessels, have a 5" (127mm) gun added, an 8-cell Mk-41 added for 32 ESSM missiles, two quad cannister Harpoons added, and fly a Lynx helo off of them. Not to mention their propulsion.

Those characteristics make those frigates as powerful as most modern frigates from any other nation. Even though they are basically a Type 053, they sure do not look like it:

Thailand's Type 25T (see the larger deck house, basically crossing the entire width of the vessel and with the additional sensors):

PLANs Type 053H3G (Jiangwei III)

 

[jobjed]

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If that is the case then China doesn't deserve to get the contract in the first place, if they compromised the deal and held back and did not offer what the customer asked for then they can't be expected to get any orders, bad business and unprofessional, it's not the way it works if you want to get into arms business

Also Chinese systems are usually very customer friendly and many sub systems can be fitted easily, there is little restriction in that sense so it can't be the reason

Whatever the reason is should be investigated and studied as to why a contract of this scale was lost, China can design and build any surface vessel to meet whatever are the need of the end customer, literally from scratch, it's a concern why it slipped people acceptable should be brought to question

How did China "compromise" the contract when there was no contract to begin with? There was a competition, China did not win the competition, under no circumstances did China "compromise" anything. Why did China not offer its more advanced Type 054A variants is anybody's guess, but it's not for you to judge whether it's a bad or unprofessional decision. Perhaps the strategic loss in compromising the technology in the Type 054A outweighs the mere financial gain. As for the actual contract, it was by no means colossal, only 2 units were planned. The PLAN itself has already built 16; the financial loss to Chinese shipyards was minimal.

 

[shen]

Those frigates are very nice frigates and representative what a country like Thailand can do wih the vessels that were provided to them and then when they placed more capable "sub-systems" on them.

A Type 54 frigate, with its stealthier charcteristics, and larger size could do very well if provided as is and then outfitted with similar more modern and more capable sub-systems like they did for the Naresuan and her sister, Taksin.

Those vessels, which are baically modified Type 053 vessels, have a 5" (127mm) gun added, an 8-cell Mk-41 added for 32 ESSM missiles, two quad cannister Harpoons added, and fly a Lynx helo off of them. Not to mention their propulsion.

Those characteristics make those frigates as powerful as most modern frigates from any other nation. Even though they are basically a Type 053, they sure do not look like it:

Thailands Type 25T (see the larger deck house, basically crossing the entire width of the vessel and with the additional sensors):

Type 25T was an enlarged version of 053. Bigger in all dimensions. Wonder if the design can be revived, packed with 054A subsystems, for export to Pakistan.

 

[shen]

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If that is the case then China doesn't deserve to get the contract in the first place, if they compromised the deal and held back and did not offer what the customer asked for then they can't be expected to get any orders, bad business and unprofessional, it's not the way it works if you want to get into arms business

Also Chinese systems are usually very customer friendly and many sub systems can be fitted easily, there is little restriction in that sense so it can't be the reason

Whatever the reason is should be investigated and studied as to why a contract of this scale was lost, China can design and build any surface vessel to meet whatever are the need of the end customer, literally from scratch, it's a concern why it slipped people acceptable should be brought to question

I think you misunderstand the situation. Thais probably wanted 054A hull without the subsystems. Look at the HTMS Naresuan, a 053 hull filled with Western subsystems.

 

[MwRYum]

054 and 054A shares similar hull designs, what the Thai gets largely has to do with their budget.

And in terms of training and logistics, using Western subsystems already in service on other vessels helps.

In the past, the two Type 25T frigates (or frigate hulls) 421 NARESUAN and 422 TAKSIN were tailor-made by Zhonghua for Thailand in 1994-95, but were fitted almost exclusively with Western systems, including an impressive (for their size) 127 mm Mk.45 and LM-2500 gas turbines.

That was back in the day when China couldn't provide quality subsystems, so they provide a solution which have them built the hull and sourced the Western manufacturers for subsystems.

But those were the days when China yet to learn/master skills and standards the West already taken for granted, and those Thailand contracts gave the Chinese shipbuilders the opportunity to learn...and as a result, designs and standards have a radical improvement when comes to 052C DDGs and 054A FFGs, so much so that if their pennant numbers are in USN standard font (which the PLAN now using one that derived from it) and not flying PLAN colors, a layman won't be able to tell those are Chinese ships.