071 LPD thread

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Believe me, there would be another story of PLAN from someone if there exists a picture showing 3-4 LCAC loaded in the belly of 071 class.

And that is the whole point. There aren't because there is only one LCAC that the PLAN has available for use.

Clearly, they are developing their own LCAC, and they have built three large LPDs with very large help pads and hanger facilities.

The PLAN clearly wants to move towards manuever warfare in its assault operations from the sea...but they only have one LCAC, and they are short on navalized assault helos too.

So, we cannot infer from the lack of LCACs embarked on the Type 071 at this point that the PLAN "prefers" amphibious tanks and APCs for its major operations from the Type 071s.

When they have sufficient LCACs and Assault helos, then we will be able to tell what they have in mind based on their exercises at that point.

...and my guess is that we will see more and more heavy use of those LCACs and assault helos...otherwise they could have more easily built a larger number of improved and even larger Type 072 vessels. But they didn't, they built three of these and I expect they will make the most of them...which means using LCACs and air assault helops.

Time will tell.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Precisely this picture is proving PLAN amphibious forces reply more on their fast ZBD2000 for secureing the beach rather than American style of LCAC assault. You can see a LCAC at the back. The LCAC is likely more of a heavy transport to use once beach is secure.

Clearly, PLAN marines and USN Marine have both different way of approaching beach assault. Those who demand to see 4 LCAC from each 071 LDP during exercise clearly do not understand PLAN.

pretty useless statment do you even know what you are saying??

as Jeff pointed out PLAN has only limited number of LCAC, 1st one was 3320 and we recently seen 3321 from 999 in the Pacific excercise and the 3rd is probably ready to join as we have seen pics of it under construction, probably going to be 3322, thats 3 LCAC in or around to be in service to cover all 3 x Type 071 LPDs, so how can use 4 when you dont even have 4!

and lastly why design Type 071 LPD with capability for 4 x LCAC and 4 x Z8, well i guess it wouldnt take a genius to work out why

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

...and my guess is that we will see more and more heavy use of those LCACs and assault helos...otherwise they could have more easily built a larger number of improved and even larger Type 072 vessels. But they didn't, they built three of these and I expect they will make the most of them...which means using LCACs and air assault helops.

Time will tell.

well precisely, PLAN operates more than 25 x Type 072 of all varients, why build 3 x Type 071 LPD when they could just load on 10-15 vehicles per Type 072, but Type 072 is for beech landing whereas Type 071 LPD is for long range amphibous landings, and for use in over the horizon attack

also there is 3 LCAC identified, 3320, 3321 and probably 3322, heres pics of the first two, the 3rd is probably under sea trials or even commissioned, we seen it last year at JN shipyard , my estimate is that production for these has started and we will start to see more of them being handed over to PLAN

 

[bd popeye]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Floating tins are used to land on "beach" which are usually heavily defended or mined. Choppers and LCACs with MBT/SPG can land on inland which are not prepared by defendant. Attacking unprepared areas is attacking enemy's heart and unbalancing enemy's mind. It's called "Maneuver Warfare", not only "Amphibious Warfare."

This is the preferred method by the USMC for a beach assault. A flanking maneuver. LCACs and landing craft will be used after the attack from the rear is well under way.

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

And that is the whole point. There aren't because there is only one LCAC that the PLAN has available for use.

Clearly, they are developing their own LCAC, and they have built three large LPDs with very large help pads and hanger facilities.

The PLAN clearly wants to move towards manuever warfare in its assault operations from the sea...but they only have one LCAC, and they are short on navalized assault helos too.

So, we cannot infer from the lack of LCACs embarked on the Type 071 at this point that the PLAN "prefers" amphibious tanks and APCs for its major operations from the Type 071s.

When they have sufficient LCACs and Assault helos, then we will be able to tell what they have in mind based on their exercises at that point.

...and my guess is that we will see more and more heavy use of those LCACs and assault helos...otherwise they could have more easily built a larger number of improved and even larger Type 072 vessels. But they didn't, they built three of these and I expect they will make the most of them...which means using LCACs and air assault helops.

Time will tell.

I don't think its a matter of sufficient LCAC, given the very slow production of LCAC. There seems no urgent needs of needing so many LCAC.

While the ZBD2000 since debut in 2006 has taken a swift develop into three variant of IFV, command post and 105mm gun in a short time. We can assume there's at least few hundred of this fast speed amphibious vehicle serving the PLAN Marine. With many widespread use of this new amphibious vehicle. I do not forsee the planner plan to abandon it in favour of LCAC assault style.

071 LDP may have the capacity to fill in 4 LCAC but if you fill the whole deck with all LCAC, there will be little capacity left for other mechanized. I suspect, 1 or 2 is the most it will be carried onboard each 071 LPD.

 

[PanAsian]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

From the few videos of the PLAN exercises with the 071 and LCAC recently I think I noticed the cushion of the LCAC being too 'bouncy' or not firm enough, or maybe the LCAC is underpowered resulting in 'bounciness'. Just my layperson's observation. Has anyone else noticed this 'bounciness'? Or care to speculate what might be the cause?

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I don't think its a matter of sufficient LCAC, given the very slow production of LCAC. There seems no urgent needs of needing so many LCAC.

But the issue is insufficient LCACs if you are going to make a statement from a picture with one LCAC that the PLAN does not intend to use them very heavily. There was only one available to use...so that's all they could put there.

My point is that until they have quite a few more we will not know for sure what their preferred strategy will be. Perhaps they will go with just two per Type 071, and the rest amphib IFV, as you say. I think it will depend entirely on the particular operation.

My own guess is, that since they have built these very capable vessels with the capacity for four, they will use them for that, and use their many 072s as part of an Amphibious Ready Group when they "hit the beaches," to send in the IFVs from those vessels.

If the PLAN coupled 2-3 Type 072s with each Type 071, they could send in a large number of all sorts of IFVs from the Type 072s in each wave, and up to four LCACs in each wave.

If they had two Type 071s and 4-6 Type 072s, they could just double all of that for each wave.

That's how I would use them.

The PLAN could develop a significant air assault behind lines, or on a flank with helos from the Type 071s and perhaps from the carrier too, depending on the size of operation...get that fully engaged and progressing, then when the timing is right, hit the beach with the IFVs and LCACs.

 

[MwRYum]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I don't think its a matter of sufficient LCAC, given the very slow production of LCAC. There seems no urgent needs of needing so many LCAC.

While the ZBD2000 since debut in 2006 has taken a swift develop into three variant of IFV, command post and 105mm gun in a short time. We can assume there's at least few hundred of this fast speed amphibious vehicle serving the PLAN Marine. With many widespread use of this new amphibious vehicle. I do not forsee the planner plan to abandon it in favour of LCAC assault style.

071 LDP may have the capacity to fill in 4 LCAC but if you fill the whole deck with all LCAC, there will be little capacity left for other mechanized. I suspect, 1 or 2 is the most it will be carried onboard each 071 LPD.

Either that, or it has taken them that long to work out all those problems that prevent them from progressing towards serial production (the 3221 might be another prototype, or first of the LRSP batch, hard to tell).

Still, in order for PLAN to migrate its amphibious warfare tempo into the modern high gear type, LCAC is just part of the equation - more vertical assets will be needed, and just 3 LPDs won't be enough - they'd need a whole fleet of LHDs like the USN does, and PLAN aviation have a bigger compliment of heavy transport helicopters and its own dedicated attack helicopters...given the Z-10 only recently inducted that's a tall order of things I afraid.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

, in order for PLAN to migrate its amphibious warfare tempo into the modern high gear type, LCAC is just part of the equation - more vertical assets will be needed, and just 3 LPDs won't be enough - they'd need a whole fleet of LHDs like the USN does, and PLAN aviation have a bigger compliment of heavy transport helicopters and its own dedicated attack helicopters...given the Z-10 only recently inducted that's a tall order of things I afraid.

Gotta start somewhere though, and the PLAN has clearly started.

The only other nations with three or more large amphibious vessels like the Type 071s, near or over 20,000 tons eac,h are the US, the UK, and France. Now China. Japan has several...but they are all much smaller. The Russians are heading that way, but haven't arrived yet.

Yes, the PLAN has to design and build more...and get good helos and LCACs...but they now have something to really put them on and begin figuring out their strategies and policiesand exercising them ... where they did not have them before.

The Type 072s are nice...but they compliment the LPDs like the Type 071s...not take their place. I believe the PLAN is making amazing...almost breathtaking progress as maritime power goes in the last ten years. I believe it is also going to continue so they are ultimately going to get there.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

PLAN has 2 marine brigades each numbering 6,000 men, Both are based in South China Sea, they are the 1st and 2nd marine brigades based at Zhanjiang

In the long term China should build enough capability to lift at least both brigades or at minimum one brigade for a amphibious assault, that will require considerable capability in terms of LPD and LHD, as of now they are barely at the battalion level

Eventually China might work towards transporting a entire marine division which would really put PLAN on a powerful position but for something like that they need to build a Wasp/Amercia Class LHD, a Mistral Class wouldn't cut it