China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

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Hyperwarp

Captain
Re: Chinese ballistic Missiles and nuclear weapons

Very old pics of China 1-gen ABM: FJ-1.
The FJ-1 had completed two successful flight tests during 1979. Despite the development of missiles, the programme was slowed down due to financial and political reasons. It was finally closed down during 1980 under a new leadership of Deng Xiao Peng as it was seemingly deemed unnecessary after the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.

http://i.imgur.com/gme4l.jpg[/IMG]
http://i.imgur.com/rmHat.jpg[/IMG]

This may have not entered service, but it was a phenomenal effort by the PRC, especially considering this was in the 70s.
 

kroko

Senior Member
This is a chinese off-road capable 8 axis superheavy truck. We have never saw it in service with PLAN. But we saw it in the recent north korean parade.

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Why do the chinese allow the NK to have this beast, when its DF-31 uses a weak road-only truck ??

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Red___Sword

Junior Member
This is a chinese off-road capable 8 axis superheavy truck. We have never saw it in service with PLAN. But we saw it in the recent north korean parade.

Why do the chinese allow the NK to have this beast, when its DF-31 uses a weak road-only truck ??

I doubt the NK's off road 8 axis truck is from China.

In case you didn't noticed, China's DF31 is packed in a launching silo package, while what ever NK's new toy is, it is naked. To carry something like DF31 with full package on back of an off-roader, would require an even bigger beast than the one showed in NK's parade.

Yes China have that kind of beast as show in some rumored DF41 TEL by-passer-snap photo, but the one in question of NK's off-roader, I see no Chinese mark.

While I guess you have no bash intention, kroko, I would like to point out typical western mind consider everything in NK are borrowd (if not "gifted") from China, China do not lend (if not gift) everything to NK. But I do would like to think in the track that people in CMC are making certain degree of inquiry to Russia now.

The worst case might well be that NK is good enough to pull this feat off by itself - The truck, and even maybe the rocket (Put precision aside)
 

kroko

Senior Member
I doubt the NK's off road 8 axis truck is from China.

In case you didn't noticed, China's DF31 is packed in a launching silo package, while what ever NK's new toy is, it is naked. To carry something like DF31 with full package on back of an off-roader, would require an even bigger beast than the one showed in NK's parade.

Yes China have that kind of beast as show in some rumored DF41 TEL by-passer-snap photo, but the one in question of NK's off-roader, I see no Chinese mark.

While I guess you have no bash intention, kroko, I would like to point out typical western mind consider everything in NK are borrowd (if not "gifted") from China, China do not lend (if not gift) everything to NK. But I do would like to think in the track that people in CMC are making certain degree of inquiry to Russia now.

The worst case might well be that NK is good enough to pull this feat off by itself - The truck, and even maybe the rocket (Put precision aside)

lol

first, theres no doubt that that is an chinese truck, the WS51200.

Second, cannisters arent that heavy. SS-25 and SS-27 are carried in something similar to this and they are carried perfectly well.

third, where is any chinese TEL that is bigger then this truck?
 

kroko

Senior Member
So do you care to wager a guess as to why the 2nd artillery would use trucks inferior to those being sold to North Korea?

Who knows? I heard that sometimes they export their best equipment to other nations before using them themselves. Weird.
 

Engineer

Major
Why do the chinese allow the NK to have this beast, when its DF-31 uses a weak road-only truck ??

Here are some possible reasons:
  • The TELs appeared in China's 2009 Parade might only be for show. It was a parade, after all.
  • Somewhat related to the above point, if WS51200s are equipped to carry DF-31, they might not be able to travel into Urban center. They would be too tall to go under bridges or through tunnels, especially when carried on a rail car.
  • Second Artillery might think road-mobile TELs are sufficed, with the bonus that the TELs can be disguised as civilian trucks.
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
Who knows? I heard that sometimes they export their best equipment to other nations before using them themselves. Weird.

I noticed you have opend a thread about possible breach of UN resolution on the truck photo, and soon shut down by the revenge of Sith Lord.

Without further political dragging, I draw your attention that there is this thing called evidence in need of any accusation, and when A-Q terrorists weilding AK47 do not validates that Russia is funding the terror, and when African rebels riding Toyota pick-ups for the kill do not validates that Japan is behind all the bodycounts... Let's not start finger pointing China only for the looking (or for this case, hearsay), too.
 

escobar

Brigadier
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Recent footage on Chinese state TV is fueling speculation that new medium-range missiles have been deployed by the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

Although the existence of the missile hasn't yet been confirmed, because of its reputed range, suspicions are being raised that the "Dongfeng-16" is aimed at China's rival claimants in the South China Sea. It's already known that China's conventional missile force has plenty of warheads capable of devastating traditional target Taiwan.

The story of how the "DF-16" came to the world's attention seems straight out of a PLA textbook on political warfare.

In recent weeks when the rivalry between China and Vietnam and the Philippines over the potentially energy-rich South China Sea reached unprecedented heights, China's CCTV channel 13 showed a clip ostensibly routinely applauding the nation's armed forces.

Somewhere in an undisclosed urban location in China, a mobile missile launcher was shown driving around and then parking in a military garage.

The footage had been noted in faraway Russia by military enthusiasts, and in early April, was posted on a website affiliated with a military-industrial complex. It didn't take long for bloggers to reach a conclusion on the device. Because the launch vehicle's chassis was smaller than what's needed to launch a DF-21 - China's known medium-range ballistic missile - but bigger than those used for the DF-11 and DF-15 short-range ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan, it must be a DF-16.

The existence of that missile type was first alleged by Taiwan's National Security Bureau about a year ago. Then, Western analysts questioned the credibility of the reports.

The Taipei Times this week picked up on the story, quoting an expert on the Chinese missile force who speculated that the DF-16 could be deployed in Shaoguan, Guangdong province. That location, added to the missile's suspected range, could make it a "swing unit", said Mark Stokes of the Project 2049 Institute. This would give it the ability to target not just Taiwan, but "also serve as a deterrent in the South China Sea and Vietnam, more specifically".

After Taiwan's principle intelligence agency first made mention of the DF-16 in 2011, military scholars said a deployment against Taiwan wouldn't be implausible, either. Its longer range means the missile climbs higher and falls longer, which with the help of gravity accelerates the speed with which it homes in on its target, improving its chances of outmaneuvering missile interceptors such as Taiwan's PAC-3.

The agency also said that if Taiwan were subject to salvoes of the more than 1,000 short-range DF-11 and DF-15 the PLA aims at it, almost all military infrastructure on the island would be flattened. However, the underground air base in the east coast town of Hualien would be nearly impossible to hit from west-to-east as the Central Mountain Range protects it.

The DF-16's higher climb and resulting sharper angle of re-entry into the atmosphere would possibly help solving the remaining headache over Hualien for the PLA, a retired high-ranking Taiwanese military source told Asia Times Online.

What's not so plausible, however, is whether the Chinese really need such elaborated gadgetry in order to deter the "Taiwanese independence forces". Washington has denied the Taiwanese new fighter jets and is seemingly working against the acquisition of submarines and other sorts of punchy weapons systems. Without such outside help, the likelihood of the Taiwanese withstanding a Chinese attack is tiny.

In interviews, experts told Asia Times Online where they thought China's new medium-range missiles were aimed, if indeed they existed and were deployed in Guangdong province. The assessments differ, but no one sees mainland Vietnam as the principal target.

Oliver Braeuner, a China and security expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, said the DF-16 could serve multiple purposes.

"The extreme distances between the Chinese mainland and the groups of islands claimed by Beijing in the South China Sea require other means than the situation in the Taiwan Strait," said Braeuner, singling out blue-water warships and improved medium-range missiles like the supposed DF-16 as such means. "Also, Beijing definitely intends to keep the US out of the South China Sea, not only the neighbors."

John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a US think-tank, also doesn't believe the DF-16 is meant for Vietnam. "I am thinking it is aimed at the West Philippine Sea [the Philippines' name for the South China Sea], rather than Vietnam," Pike said.

"One could imagine the combination of long-range and a conventional warhead being useful in the West Philippine Sea, where there would only be a small number of targets. Vietnam is big, and would swallow large numbers of DF-16s and never notice."

According to Steve Tsang, director of the University of Nottingham's China Policy Institute, if China indeed deploys the new DF-16 in Guangdong's Shaoguan, it will certainly not help to ease tensions over the South China Sea. In mid-April, Chinese fishing vessels and semi-military maritime surveillance ships engaged in a standoff there against the Philippine navy in disputed waters off the Philippines' main island of Luzon.

"If anything, this will be seen as threatening or provocative act from Vietnam's perspective. But Taiwan will probably not get overly concerned, as the missile threat there is long-standing," Tsang said.

Tsang then evaluated the DF-16's suspected range.

"If the Taipei Times is right, the missile has a range of 1000-1200 km [in an earlier report, the daily quoted an unnamed official who suspected a range of between 1,000km and 1,500km]. If it's based in Shaoguan, Taiwan will be close to the effective maximum range of the missile, whereas the Spratlys will be out of range entirely.

"The Paracels will be at the very edge of the range. Northern Vietnam will be within range, but the southern part of Vietnam will be out of range. But then, if the DF-16s are meant for the South China Sea, it will need to have anti-ship capacity to be really meaningful", he said, emphasizing that there's nothing suggesting that the DF-16 is an effective anti-ship missile, and that none of the Southeast Asian countries operates very large surface ships that could be targeted by such anyway.

Tsang dismissed the idea that China would employ a weapon like the DF-16 against northern Vietnam over disputes in the South China Sea, and concluded that the missiles will mainly have direct implications for Taiwan.

"Regarding the South China Sea, it will have a certain intimidating value. But any such gain will be outweighed by the loss in diplomatic terms in Southeast Asia as a whole," Tsang said.

"It will not be enough to intimidate Vietnam into submission and will only make Southeast Asian countries more concerned with China's new assertive approach in the region."
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
Boost Phase IRBM and ICBM interceptors could be used to take down DF-21Ds fired at the carrier battlegroup. I mentioned this in an earlier discussion where long endurance drones flying off the carrier could be used as the first line of defense against ASBMs. It seems as though others are having the same idea.

"With North Korea's failed missile launch Friday, it is clear many nations around the globe are attempting to acquire missiles that can carry larger payloads and go further. Such moves have made the United States and its allies very nervous. Missile defense has been debated since the 1980's with such debate back once again the headlines. Most missile defense platforms have technical issues and are very expensive. One idea: use drones instead. '... a high-speed (~3.5 to 5.0 km/s), two-stage, hit-to-kill interceptor missile, launched from a Predator-type UAV can defeat many of these ballistic missile threats in their boost phase.' Could a Drone really take down a North Korea missile? 'A physics-based simulator can estimate the capabilities of a high-altitude, long endurance UAV-launched boost-phase interceptor (HALE BPI) launched from an altitude of approximately 60,000 feet. Enabled by the revolution in UAVs, this proposed boost-phase interceptor, based on off-the-shelf technology, can be deployed in operationally feasible stations on the periphery of North Korea.'"
 

solarz

Brigadier
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Recent footage on Chinese state TV is fueling speculation that new medium-range missiles have been deployed by the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

Although the existence of the missile hasn't yet been confirmed, because of its reputed range, suspicions are being raised that the "Dongfeng-16" is aimed at China's rival claimants in the South China Sea. It's already known that China's conventional missile force has plenty of warheads capable of devastating traditional target Taiwan.

The story of how the "DF-16" came to the world's attention seems straight out of a PLA textbook on political warfare.

In recent weeks when the rivalry between China and Vietnam and the Philippines over the potentially energy-rich South China Sea reached unprecedented heights, China's CCTV channel 13 showed a clip ostensibly routinely applauding the nation's armed forces.


Somewhere in an undisclosed urban location in China, a mobile missile launcher was shown driving around and then parking in a military garage.

The footage had been noted in faraway Russia by military enthusiasts, and in early April, was posted on a website affiliated with a military-industrial complex. It didn't take long for bloggers to reach a conclusion on the device. Because the launch vehicle's chassis was smaller than what's needed to launch a DF-21 - China's known medium-range ballistic missile - but bigger than those used for the DF-11 and DF-15 short-range ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan, it must be a DF-16.

The existence of that missile type was first alleged by Taiwan's National Security Bureau about a year ago. Then, Western analysts questioned the credibility of the reports.

The Taipei Times this week picked up on the story, quoting an expert on the Chinese missile force who speculated that the DF-16 could be deployed in Shaoguan, Guangdong province. That location, added to the missile's suspected range, could make it a "swing unit", said Mark Stokes of the Project 2049 Institute. This would give it the ability to target not just Taiwan, but "also serve as a deterrent in the South China Sea and Vietnam, more specifically".

After Taiwan's principle intelligence agency first made mention of the DF-16 in 2011, military scholars said a deployment against Taiwan wouldn't be implausible, either. Its longer range means the missile climbs higher and falls longer, which with the help of gravity accelerates the speed with which it homes in on its target, improving its chances of outmaneuvering missile interceptors such as Taiwan's PAC-3.

The agency also said that if Taiwan were subject to salvoes of the more than 1,000 short-range DF-11 and DF-15 the PLA aims at it, almost all military infrastructure on the island would be flattened. However, the underground air base in the east coast town of Hualien would be nearly impossible to hit from west-to-east as the Central Mountain Range protects it.

The DF-16's higher climb and resulting sharper angle of re-entry into the atmosphere would possibly help solving the remaining headache over Hualien for the PLA, a retired high-ranking Taiwanese military source told Asia Times Online.

What's not so plausible, however, is whether the Chinese really need such elaborated gadgetry in order to deter the "Taiwanese independence forces". Washington has denied the Taiwanese new fighter jets and is seemingly working against the acquisition of submarines and other sorts of punchy weapons systems. Without such outside help, the likelihood of the Taiwanese withstanding a Chinese attack is tiny.

In interviews, experts told Asia Times Online where they thought China's new medium-range missiles were aimed, if indeed they existed and were deployed in Guangdong province. The assessments differ, but no one sees mainland Vietnam as the principal target.

Oliver Braeuner, a China and security expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, said the DF-16 could serve multiple purposes.

"The extreme distances between the Chinese mainland and the groups of islands claimed by Beijing in the South China Sea require other means than the situation in the Taiwan Strait," said Braeuner, singling out blue-water warships and improved medium-range missiles like the supposed DF-16 as such means. "Also, Beijing definitely intends to keep the US out of the South China Sea, not only the neighbors."

John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a US think-tank, also doesn't believe the DF-16 is meant for Vietnam. "I am thinking it is aimed at the West Philippine Sea [the Philippines' name for the South China Sea], rather than Vietnam," Pike said.

"One could imagine the combination of long-range and a conventional warhead being useful in the West Philippine Sea, where there would only be a small number of targets. Vietnam is big, and would swallow large numbers of DF-16s and never notice."

According to Steve Tsang, director of the University of Nottingham's China Policy Institute, if China indeed deploys the new DF-16 in Guangdong's Shaoguan, it will certainly not help to ease tensions over the South China Sea. In mid-April, Chinese fishing vessels and semi-military maritime surveillance ships engaged in a standoff there against the Philippine navy in disputed waters off the Philippines' main island of Luzon.

"If anything, this will be seen as threatening or provocative act from Vietnam's perspective. But Taiwan will probably not get overly concerned, as the missile threat there is long-standing," Tsang said.

Tsang then evaluated the DF-16's suspected range.

"If the Taipei Times is right, the missile has a range of 1000-1200 km [in an earlier report, the daily quoted an unnamed official who suspected a range of between 1,000km and 1,500km]. If it's based in Shaoguan, Taiwan will be close to the effective maximum range of the missile, whereas the Spratlys will be out of range entirely.

"The Paracels will be at the very edge of the range. Northern Vietnam will be within range, but the southern part of Vietnam will be out of range. But then, if the DF-16s are meant for the South China Sea, it will need to have anti-ship capacity to be really meaningful", he said, emphasizing that there's nothing suggesting that the DF-16 is an effective anti-ship missile, and that none of the Southeast Asian countries operates very large surface ships that could be targeted by such anyway.

Tsang dismissed the idea that China would employ a weapon like the DF-16 against northern Vietnam over disputes in the South China Sea, and concluded that the missiles will mainly have direct implications for Taiwan.

"Regarding the South China Sea, it will have a certain intimidating value. But any such gain will be outweighed by the loss in diplomatic terms in Southeast Asia as a whole," Tsang said.

"It will not be enough to intimidate Vietnam into submission and will only make Southeast Asian countries more concerned with China's new assertive approach in the region."

Wow, all that from a few minutes of a clip shown on CCTV.
 
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