J-20... The New Generation Fighter

[SteelBird]

Okay guys, I'm not so sure if the J-20 with white-tail is using WS-10/WS-10A anymore. I am starting to suscept the engines might actually be WS-15. My reasoning is as follow. First, the nozzle on the engines does not look like the nozzle of WS-10/WS-10A we have seen in airshows. Secondly, they already have a J-20 with AL-31 seving as interm engines. It doesn't make much sense to have yet another type of interm engine when their ultimate goal is to install WS-15. Installing WS-10/WS10A would mean they have to chunk out yet another prototype, which would cost more time and money. Thirdly, the big shots from the airforce spent a lot of time admiring the J-20 engines. If there is a big breakthrough with the WS-10 series, surely Shenyang Liming would want the spot light by inviting the big shots to the WS-10 factory instead. Lastly, the engineer who recently received the metal does not look like the engineer who headed the WS-10 project.

Any thought?

Agreed. With WS-10/WS-10A/AL-31, the big bird won't go anywhere near super-cruise. But, again, do you have any info regarding the spec of WS-15 and the status of this new engine?

 

[Blitzo]

Okay guys, I'm not so sure if the J-20 with white-tail is using WS-10/WS-10A anymore. I am starting to suscept the engines might actually be WS-15. My reasoning is as follow. First, the nozzle on the engines does not look like the nozzle of WS-10/WS-10A we have seen in airshows. Secondly, they already have a J-20 with AL-31 seving as interm engines. It doesn't make much sense to have yet another type of interm engine when their ultimate goal is to install WS-15. Installing WS-10/WS10A would mean they have to chunk out yet another prototype, which would cost more time and money. Thirdly, the big shots from the airforce spent a lot of time admiring the J-20 engines. If there is a big breakthrough with the WS-10 series, surely Shenyang Liming would want the spot light by inviting the big shots to the WS-10 factory instead. Lastly, the engineer who recently received the metal does not look like the engineer who headed the WS-10 project.

Any thought?

Oh I'm not so sure about that -- from what we've heard an uprated WS-10A will be used for the initial batch and WS-15 will be ready by 2015 by the earliest. The Al-31F would've been the first flight prototype while the second uses indigenous engines for risk reduction.
The big shots could've been admiring the engines simply because they weren't russian, and maybe the runway was a better place to get the limelight for shenyang or something? Lots of variables...

The biggest problem in the idea is that if WS-15 was on the prototype we'd be hearing it from some of the more knowledgable posters, and all previous indicators say WS-15 (while moving fast) isn't that far ahead, and PLAAF certainly won't be so confident as to put a pair of them into their newest stealth fighter.

 

[Centrist]

The thing is, CAC will NOT put an experimental engine on the J-20 prototype. I think we are just seeing a regular ws10 with an IR reducing nozzle. Having said that, I still have no idea why they needed one powered by al-31f...the WS-10 is a proven engine now.

 

[challenge]

since the aircraft was not painted in standard dark yellow,but dark green,this may implied that like F-22,the entire aircraft was "sugar coated" or RAM.
this could also mean that J-20 like F-22 going to be very expensive to operate,"one hour of flied, 14 hour of maintainance"
price tag of each aircraft likely to be even more expensive than the SU-30mKK.
this likely prevent PLAAF from massive purchase. unless a single engine version are already in the drawing board.

 

[dingyibvs]

since the aircraft was not painted in standard dark yellow,but dark green,this may implied that like F-22,the entire aircraft was "sugar coated" or RAM.
this could also mean that J-20 like F-22 going to be very expensive to operate,"one hour of flied, 14 hour of maintainance"
price tag of each aircraft likely to be even more expensive than the SU-30mKK.
this likely prevent PLAAF from massive purchase. unless a single engine version are already in the drawing board.

No aircraft is entirely covered with RAM, at most maybe 15% or so at strategic areas.

 

[GreenestGDP]

... ...
this likely prevent PLAAF from massive purchase. unless a single engine version are already in the drawing board.

1) How is the single engine version can save significant maintaining costs?

Courtesy of Pinko from Keypub

The WS-10G FADEC by Honglin ( AVIC Factory 143) is tailor made, and exclusively tested for powering the J-20 tentatively, it was reported widely in 08,2009, only we thought it's WS-15 prototype. AVIC factory 143 is NOT located in Shenyang but in Guizhou, quite close to Chengdu, Chengdu & Shenyang seem not getting so well as CAC never uses engines manufactured in Shengyang ... ...

BTW, Pinko is NOT Pinkov. LOL

WS-10G - At least 14,500 kgf

2) What do everybody think of Pinko assessment?

 

[maozedong]

the first photo is the modal of WS-10 series engine, news reported that Honglin ( AVIC Factory 143) delivered two of the engines to certain institute on Aug,30,2009. some people speculate that's WS-10G FADEC for J-20.
you guy no need to check Gan Xiao Hua is working in Honglin or not,and no need to check his security.
Gan Xiao Hua is the chief engineer of Air Force equipment research institute,he has been working for aircraft engine research for 26 years, organized, participated in a number of major research topic in the core technology, major breakthroughs in key technology areas.
January 6, the Central Military Committee to Gan Xiaohua recorded a first celebration was held at the Air Force Institute of equipment. CMC Chairman Hu Jintao at the meeting read out the orders signed, and Gan Xiaohua awarded a first medal and certificate.
of cause, he must had great contribution for J-20 project.

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[adeptitus]

Re: J-20... (IOT -- M2M2H2M)

We all know that China Central government is channeling huge sum of money USD 2.3 Trillions to perform R&D on the next 7 Big technology frontiers between 2011 -- 2015 (12th -- 5 year plan).
One of them is (IOT -- M2M2H2M) technology.

So, can you explain to us where you got the $2.3 trillion USD figure, and what "IOT - M2M2H2M" is? Other than a single post from "Mika Montald" on another forum, I cannot find any reference to that acronym.

1) A squadron of J-20 (data link together) will act as the (most forward garrison) multiple mini AWACS platforms and acting as an airborne wireless digital switches to automatically relay and directly channel back and forth data links between (the URAV spotter, the UCAV drones,
Submarines, the regular AWACS planes, and the Central Command to locate the Carriers group.

Look, the "J-20" is a prototype on the runway, like YF-22 in 1990. It has yet to go through its development cycle. For comparison, the YF-22 prototype flew in 1990, the production F-22 flew in 1997, and F-22 reached operational status in USAF in 2005.

The kind of J-20 mission profile you described is not anywhere near being a reality at this time.

 

[challenge]

1) How is the single engine version can save significant maintaining costs?





BTW, Pinko is NOT Pinkov. LOL

WS-10G - At least 14,500 kgf

2) What do everybody think of Pinko assessment?

China did confirmed that they are working single engine "F-35" type aircraft (J-18?).
it likely that J-20 was power by WS-10G,AL-31F and WS-10A lack the sufficient power.while the Russian 117S was still in late developing stage.
likely hood that aircraft being power by up rated Ws10A .

 

[GreenestGDP]

^^^

1)

RE: China Central government is channeling huge sum of money USD 2.3 Trillions to perform R&D on the next 7 Big technology frontiers between 2011 -- 2015 (12th -- 5 year plan)

At this moment, I can not find the English translation link.
When I find it, I will post them here.


2) IOT stands for Internet of Things or Internet 3.0
M2M2H2M stands for Machine to Machine to Human to Machine


Picture: IOT M2M2H2M concept

3) My 3 cents, 1 of the primary purpose for the designing huge size of J-20 as a Mini AWACS platform (that can defend itself) is to accommodate the IOT M2M2H2M concept in the picture above.


Just imagine ... ...

1) The Yellow boxes in this picture are the UCAV and URAV drones and Submarines.

2) The Big Red Dots are J-20s

3) For extra redundancy, the inland Big AWACS planes can replace the Satellites.


All the technologies are available.
It is only a matter of OUT_of_the_BOX thinking and integrating them together.