J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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siegecrossbow

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Re: New Generation Fighter

The real questions for me remain:

Where will this plane fit into the PLAAF Inventory?

What will it be replacing?

I am afraid; impressive though this machine is, that I am not a huge fan of Stealth nor do I have faith in single wonder weapons.

I do however have faith in integrated defence systems and the way that layers compliment the capabilities of individual platforms.

The question as to what this machine is for is one that needs answering at the earliest IMHO.

Recently a Chinese military program on CCTV 7 talked about using stealth aircrafts as mini-awacs for unmanned attack drones. Given J-20's large fuel capacity and potentially powerful radar this may be one of its many uses.

Hey , its even got a mouse

How else are you gonna play Call of Duty to pass time when you are on a long boring mission?
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

The real questions for me remain:

Where will this plane fit into the PLAAF Inventory?

What will it be replacing?

I am afraid; impressive though this machine is, that I am not a huge fan of Stealth nor do I have faith in single wonder weapons.

I do however have faith in integrated defence systems and the way that layers compliment the capabilities of individual platforms.

The question as to what this machine is for is one that needs answering at the earliest IMHO.

I did not see your post before putting in my own. Well, we were told that it was an air superiority fighter, and I'm taking that at face value. But it is one that can cover all of East Asia and a good chunk of the Western Pacific and of South Asia as well. As well, its possibilities as a deep penetration strike platform are obvious. And nobody but the US in this whole area has anything that can compete with this, nor is anything in the cards, unless the US exports the f-22!

I agree that the "whole system" is what counts, and not individual weapons, but "informization" has been the PLA's top priority for quite some time now. I do think the PLA is working on integrating everything "sensor fusion" and all that stuff. There is still some time before we will see this item's capabilities, as well as those of the whole integrated system.

Meanwhile, I think simply pictures of this beast are bound to force a rethink among many states in the region, as I pointed out in my post above. And actually, the whole world will be affected. You can see India reacting already. The news items I was looking at last night, from India, Pakistan, and other places still were not "sure" if it was real or fake.
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Exactly! And all in a massive rolling of punches that includes the deployment of DF-21D ASBM and testing SLBM off the coast of California.

Neighboring Asian countries should back off from whatever territorial disputes they have with China right away. Taiwan should immediately begin serious negotiation on Hong Kong-style reunification. The longer they delay this, the greater the ultimate retribution will be.

Uncle Sam can no longer protect them against China. An ancient civilization-state and once the most powerful in the world for millenia, China has finally stood up and is ready to remake the neighborhood in its own image once again.
You know, Roger, I still think China would prefer a "peaceful rise":). Even when China's economy is, say, twice the size of the American one, it will not be able to fight everybody at once. Anyway, it does not have to demand anything from anybody. All it needs to do is show this thing off (be "transparent"). To me, this sort of thing actually allows China to be "softer" and "friendlier", because everybody can see the big stick! It is weaker states that need to look "nasty" (DPRK?).
 
Re: New Generation Fighter

Hey , its even got a mouse
We can only imagine what happens when conducting a Cobra. But I say these new additions to the cockpit are nothing compared to those bottled water. Now that's something even the West and the F-22s don't have. Whoever came up with that, gotta give it to them. Can't believe all these time in stealth development no one ever thought about the pilots getting thirsty. Or maybe I'm wrong. Those are pee bottles.

In J-20B, we'll probably will see inclusions such as microwave and a fridge full of cold beer.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

You know, Roger, I still think China would prefer a "peaceful rise":). Even when China's economy is, say, twice the size of the American one, it will not be able to fight everybody at once. Anyway, it does not have to demand anything from anybody. All it needs to do is show this thing off (be "transparent"). To me, this sort of thing actually allows China to be "softer" and "friendlier", because everybody can see the big stick! It is weaker states that need to look "nasty" (DPRK?).
I read elsewhere that US policy took a hard turn against China in 2010 because US wanted China to pick up the tab for the economic crisis that is consuming the world. That's why China faced pressure and flashpoints all around its periphery. This plan was hatched by Hillary Clinton. Now that it's completely backfired, the author suggests that that the White House is in disarray and wrangling with each other. Obama and Hillary have personality issues in the first place and she will get pushed aside.

This is a news article that supports this theory

A newly mighty China gets to grips with its power
JOHN GARNAUT
December 31, 2010

BEIJING: It was only last year that China surprised itself as much as anyone else by discovering that it had arrived as a world power, years ahead of expectations.

The great leap was partly due to the Communist Party's unique capacity and determination to pump up the local economy at a time when the developed world was being battered by the financial crisis. ''How do you deal toughly with your banker?'' the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, asked the then prime minister, Kevin Rudd, in March last year, according to US diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks.

Party leaders were evidently pleased with what they described in their main annual meeting as China's ''marked rise in international status and influence''. However, beyond exploiting the domestic propaganda value, they struggled to find ways to put China's new-found power to good use. Throughout 2010 the leadership appeared to lurch from underestimating its power to overestimating it. The signs of overreach were most evident in the geopolitical realm.

Beijing showed a new willingness to throw its weight around in pursuit of narrowly defined self-interest, which generated an acute sense of unease among many of its neighbours. Countries including Japan, South Korea, India and Vietnam have responded by inviting the US to re-establish its diplomatic and military primacy in the region, despite Chinese protests.

Only months ago Beijing had loudly railed at the mere possibility of a US aircraft carrier near its coastal waters. But, after sheltering its ally North Korea, Beijing now appears powerless to prevent the US from dispatching not just one aircraft carrier to the region, but three.

The Communist Party also showed signs of overreach in its efforts to silence domestic dissent with increasingly heavy-handed methods across a widening range of citizens. The 11-year jail sentence handed down to the intellectual Liu Xiaobo on December 25 last year immediately turned him into a rallying point for reformers across the country. It also led to his being awarded the Nobel peace prize in September, which led to a much broader crackdown against his supporters, raising Liu's status even further.

''If we say we didn't have a trademark in the past, then now we have a flag,'' the prominent civil rights lawyer Pu Zhiqiang told the Herald this month, despite warnings not to speak to foreign journalists about Liu.

''My hope is that Liu's prestige and resources will help provide a platform for truth and compromise when the Communist Party leviathan is bursting,'' he said.

Information technology and a rising sense of universal values are raising the political costs of oppression. Mr Pu was one of dozens of Liu supporters who had been extra-legally detained after the peace prize announcement and had immediately recounted his ordeal on Twitter. Last week another lawyer, Teng Biao, was released from a police station after supporters rallied to his aid after he tweeted news of his illegal detention via his mobile phone.

And on Saturday what might once have remained a local story about a traffic accident in Zhejiang province became a national scandal about official corruption and brutality when photos of a land activist's decapitated body - still under the tyre of a large truck - were posted all over the internet.

In both international and domestic politics, the Communist Party is finding that its increased power has led to a commensurate increase in resistance to that power.

The question for next year is whether the party will respond to these challenges by retreating and compromising or flexing its muscles more tightly.

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Re: New Generation Fighter

This is as close to a single wonder weapon as you can get. J-20 achieves parity against F-22 in air combat, whether defensively (over China) or offensively (over Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, all the way to Malacca Straits). There is no fighter jet in the world that has an upper hand over the J-20.

Against aircraft other than F-22, the kill ratios may only be limited to how many AA missiles it can carry (and whether it wants to kill more using guns at close range).

It can go deep into enemy territory to destroy integrated air defenses like Patriot. This includes both SAM on the ground and AWACS in the air. It can even do decapitation missions against enemy heads of state (for example if a Taiwan "president" is elected in 2012 who declares independence).

Conceivably, it could carry anti-ship missiles to attack carrier groups. There was a discussion about this a few pages back on this thread.

It could do the roles currently tasked to J-10, J-11, JH-7 and maybe even H-6.

The only defense against J-20 is F-22's or a very dense network of SAM, radars (especially long-wave and bi-static), AWACS and combat air patrol, or of course preventing J-20 from taking off by preemptively destroying air bases.

J-20 is the tip of the spear for the entire PLAAF.

Other than the decapitation mission (sounds too funny if you can imagine it. A J-20 flying into Chen and dropping a bomb on his face) and anti-ship missions involving heavy missiles, I agree with quite a lot of everything else you've said. I do think though, that despite all the wonders and hopes we have in J-20, unless there are numbers and simulations or even real life incidents involving both in combat, I don't think J-20 is that magical X-wing that can turn F-22 into dust. That's wishful thinking as much as we wish it to be, but I think it's a too unrealistic to think J-20 is one with everything better than the F-22. Knowing the industries in which PRC is strong and weak at, I'd think J-20 has yet developed an engine that can provide absolute competitiveness against F-22 as well as neither having developed a proven and mature school of tactics effective against one of the most experienced air force in the world.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: New Generation Fighter

Other than the decapitation mission (sounds too funny if you can imagine it. A J-20 flying into Chen and dropping a bomb on his face) and anti-ship missions involving heavy missiles, I agree with quite a lot of everything else you've said.

Don't laugh. According to PLAAF insiders a Su-27 once locked onto Chen Shuibian's plane during one of the many stand offs between PLAAF and ROCAF across the Taiwan Strait.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: New Generation Fighter

India is very interested in this project:



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With the Pakistanis being the primary beneficiaries of this other than China... I would expect so. I wonder how much a J-20 would end up costing if it were up for export. Don't know if this is correct but I read the T-50 was going to cost 300 million each but 100 million for the Indians for their investment. Indians probably thought China was way-off more than Western estimates. They're probably thinking the necessity of producing their own with this revelation. Also if rumors are true, then this isn't the only stealth bird China has up its sleeve. If China has carriers planned, probably designing another for carrier use. Also China probably would make a cheap stealth fighter simply for export market that can't afford a Western one.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Other than the decapitation mission (sounds too funny if you can imagine it. A J-20 flying into Chen and dropping a bomb on his face) and anti-ship missions involving heavy missiles, I agree with quite a lot of everything else you've said.
You should read more closely what I actually said about F-22.

As for Taiwan. Suppose in 2016 the DPP wins the election. The new "President" proudly proclaims that the Taiwanese people have spoken and they are ready to be the newest state in the UN. They host a big convention in a stadium in Taipei. Many countries send "ambassadors" to attend this party. All the DPP party big-wigs are there. Then, as he is speaking about how historical this moment is, there's a roar overhead and a massive explosion rips apart the stage, killing him and the DPP big-wigs as well as "ambassadors" from countries recognizing the Republic of Taiwan.

TV stations analyze footage in the aftermath and see the big grinning face of the J-20 bearing down from above!
 
Re: New Generation Fighter

Recently a Chinese military program on CCTV 7 talked about using stealth aircrafts as mini-awacs for unmanned attack drones. Given J-20's large fuel capacity and potentially powerful radar this may be one of its many uses.



How else are you gonna play Call of Duty to pass time when you are on a long boring mission?

Maybe future aerial battles between F-22 vs J-20 is based on capture the flag missions on Black Ops over the air. However loses flies away. So you get like 200 planes flying in circles on autopilot while they duel it out.
 
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