Next Generation DDG and FFG thread (after 055, 052D, 054B)

[bsdnf]

I don't think it's a good idea to concentrate most anti-drone weaponry on the ship like the Trump-class do; This is just like relying solely on surface-to-air missiles and AA gun for air defense; there will always be loopholes that will gradually shatter the air defense perimeter. And the installation and commissioning of naval weapons are difficult to reverse, if a weapon of choice is wrong, you need to pay the price and spend time correcting it.

I trust in these much more.

 

[TK3600]

Is it really wise to put so much drone defense on a major warship than to spread out the danger? End of the day it only take a couple hit to render the entire ship useless, if not destroyed.

 

[lcloo]

For a future large warship, it should have room for large number of small to medium expendable drones for anti-drone, anti-small boats (manned and unmanned), act as decoy with radar deflector or heat source, search and observation, overland fire observation and control for shore bombardment etc.

Drones are not replacement of helicopters onboard; it serves as a new type of weapon/observation platform and together with laser and microwave weapon, it fills the gap in defense against emergence of aerial and sea drone threats.

 

[Broccoli]

Is it really wise to put so much drone defense on a major warship than to spread out the danger? End of the day it only take a couple hit to render the entire ship useless, if not destroyed.

30 - 40mm autocannons aren't large or especially heavy systems. Frigates can host multiple such weapons without any problems.

 

[Brainsuker]

How is this post relevant to the thread?

Talking about defense against things like drones is immaterial to the thread title of next generation surface combatants, because the threat of drones and/or operating in the Taiwan strait, does not preclude the fact that navies will still require high end blue water capable surface combatants.

It is very relevant. The thread is about the Next Generation of DDG and FFG. I'm talking about the danger that DDG and FFG (specially Chinese's DDG and FFG) must face, after we witness it from Ukraine and Iran war. This Anti Drone Drone ship is an escort to protect DDG from any low flying enemy ambush. It is a drone mother ship, that can be controlled from the DDG. It bring smaller Drone that can be launched to form an anti enemy drone umbrella, or to bring towed sonar that can detect enemy submarines. It is bigger than most boat, but not as big as type 022. And, it is docked inside the DDG. So, the future DDG should have an internal dock (just like Type 71 LPD, but small) that can house this slave boat. When the DDG enter a strait, this unmanned boat can become the fore raider, or an escort to protect the DDG from the enemy ambush. Because it is unmanned, if it is destroyed by any mean, at least the DDG can avoid danger.

So why not helicopter or flying drone? Well, this boat bring small flying drones. It is a drone mothership. It can extend the range of the smaller drones range without putting the DDG into dangerous area. Or it can become a relay to control smaller drones from the DDG. And because it is a small surface combatant, it is harder to detect by radar. So it is not replacing helicopter or flying drone. It is an addition for the DDG to have.

This Anti Drone Drone ship also a must for a port / base. So it can protect bigger ships that dock at the port from being ambushed by the enemy ship drones / low flying drones.

So what is the next gen DDG? the next gen DDG is a DDG that can house this Drone Mothership boat inside their hull.

 

[Atomicfrog]

30 - 40mm autocannons aren't large or especially heavy systems. Frigates can host multiple such weapons without any problems.

We will not see the level of WW2 insane numbers of small autocannons, but the number could get higher than what we see right now. With good guidance systems 12.5-14.5mm would be enough for small flying and floating drones threat.

Laser will certainly be a great use against small targets, stiil they need to be able to burn them fast enough to switch target in a swarm situation. Multiple lasers would probably be better than one trying to shot multiple targets fast enough.

 

[Blitzo]

It is very relevant. The thread is about the Next Generation of DDG and FFG. I'm talking about the danger that DDG and FFG (specially Chinese's DDG and FFG) must face, after we witness it from Ukraine and Iran war. This Anti Drone Drone ship is an escort to protect DDG from any low flying enemy ambush. It is a drone mother ship, that can be controlled from the DDG. It bring smaller Drone that can be launched to form an anti enemy drone umbrella, or to bring towed sonar that can detect enemy submarines. It is bigger than most boat, but not as big as type 022. And, it is docked inside the DDG. So, the future DDG should have an internal dock (just like Type 71 LPD, but small) that can house this slave boat. When the DDG enter a strait, this unmanned boat can become the fore raider, or an escort to protect the DDG from the enemy ambush. Because it is unmanned, if it is destroyed by any mean, at least the DDG can avoid danger.

So why not helicopter or flying drone? Well, this boat bring small flying drones. It is a drone mothership. It can extend the range of the smaller drones range without putting the DDG into dangerous area. Or it can become a relay to control smaller drones from the DDG. And because it is a small surface combatant, it is harder to detect by radar. So it is not replacing helicopter or flying drone. It is an addition for the DDG to have.

This Anti Drone Drone ship also a must for a port / base. So it can protect bigger ships that dock at the port from being ambushed by the enemy ship drones / low flying drones.

So what is the next gen DDG? the next gen DDG is a DDG that can house this Drone Mothership boat inside their hull.

No, this "anti drone escort" is is an entirely different ship to a next gen DDG or FFG, because it automatically implies that conventional DDGs and FFGs are somehow unable to defend themselves against drones.


Drones are simply low end, cheap cruise missiles.
Equipping DDGs and FFGs with autocannons equipped with fuzed ammunition, mini-SAMs, and some HPM emitters (+/- DEWs if they emerge) would be a much more sensible and straight forward solution than what you are describing.
Essentially it would simply be adding an additional layer of CIWS.

Take the primary turret (gun, missile, and organic EO and FCR) of this thing, remove the four face radar (on a warship it will be integrated with the ship's primary sensor suite anyhow), and install a couple of them amidships on a surface combatant like a 055 or even 052D sized warship (future DDGs and FFGs can have more bespoke mounts).
What else does one need?
Heck, if one wants something longer range to complement this, you're better off developing a cheap 9-packable (or even 16-packable) small SAM for UVLS, specifically designed for economically intercepting cheap one way drones.

If one wants some sort of aerial sensor to provide organic early warning to a surface combatant, fine, then simply develop a helicopter UAV based AEW.



Developing a whole new category of surface combatant for the purpose of defending against drones is like developing a whole new category of surface combatant to defend against ballistic missiles or cruise missiles -- those capabilities are all easily able to be reconciled on a single warship with multiple roles.

 

[Blitzo]

Just a reminder for people to please post constructively in the main military threads.

Even if it's to express support of someone else's post, posting only memes/images in isolation without any corroborating content isn't desirable for these threads.

 

[Dante80]

My understanding is that PLAN gun CIWS have different RoF modes, going down to 1000 rpm if needed. This would help with magazine issues when countering low cost drones.

Having said that, it does make sense to add an additional (low cost, long endurance) layer of defense against these types of targets. China has not been idle on this front, both FK-3000 and FK-4000 projects show an active interest in the subject at hand. Same goes for the LY-1 or OW5 projects.

How this will materialize in navy combatants remains to be seen, I don't think PLAN will be sitting idle tho.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

SOYO on Weibo:

I don't know whether the new (warship) will be called 055B or 057. Anyway, (the warship) better be hitting the water/be launched quickly, I can't wait

Judging by the hint, this warship is likely to be either a further development of the 055 DDG, or a successor to the 055 DDG. Perhaps some kind of (preliminary stage?) work is already underway by the looks of it?

---

In addition, there's something of note from sometime earlier this month (from the comment section of an unrelated post):

用户7786921618: Is there any information on the new general-purpose destroyer?

一只在雪地上吃苹果的羊: The groundbreaking ceremony for the (start of work on the ship) has already been conducted in month M

The other two commentors: Whoa, really? (and how many?)

I believe that "Month M" likely means March (this year)?

I'm not sure if these guys are referring to the same ship as SOYO. Also, unlike SOYO, I'm not sure whether @一只在雪地上吃苹果的羊 is a dependable/reliable source, so kindly take his/her info with a pinch of salt.