Returning Turtles

[siegecrossbow]

Basically I have nothing against China. In actual fact, I love the country, her rich history. She is a country my ancestor... in fact, my mother came from. I am born in Singapore, but my mom is from China and father is from Malaysia, so effectively I am the first generation.

From my contact with the Chinese (during work and some of my relative still live in that country), I have can conclude that they treat human relationship of the utmost importance. Everything (you will be surprise at how much and what it ranged) depends entirely of human relationship. That is one reason when I was there, I make it a point to buy some small little gifts to give all of the engineers that are working on my project. This gifts doesn't need to be excessively expensive, just something from overseas and that is enough. When these peoples felt that they are being appreciated, I find that they will work harder for us.

Another thing I noticed about the Chinese, especially those that have not came out from China before (no offense intented), they have this habit of putting everything down. I remember my family sponsoring some of our relatives to visit Singapore. The visit coincide with the the open day where we can visit the place where our president reside and work.

I remember seeing one of the Chinese who had never step foot out of China before, and was sponsored to come for a visit by his relative in China and he and my relatives came from the same village, so we have a short chat.

That fella was commenting that our president's garden is actually inferior comparing to the piece of grassland outside the village. And mind you... that grassland was actually a place full of weeds and was absolutely not scenic at all.

Plus my relatives had been complaining about everything in singapore, putting down everything of our country and praising his village till it was like one that was make in heaven.

Well... just an observation.

Well we are not a perfect people. A lot of people in China might've gotten a little too proud due to the recent economic growth. I haven't had a lot of contacts with villagers but most of the people that I met are pretty coy (perhaps because they are in the academia?), at least on the outside. They probably would consider it a loss of face to brag about how good they are at everything (which we do see a fair bit of on the internet).

 

[lcloo]

There is a saying in Chinese that "One type of rice feeds people of hundreds of different character". I agreed with both good and bad experience of all our posters in this thread.

The diiferent behaviour is most obvious between the educated and under-educated, the city dwellers and the rural people, the rich and the pool. Each of our experience showed just a part of an elephant's body, be it a leg, trunk ot tail, as touched by a man in blind fold. Sum them up together, there is the whole picture.

China is vast and divest, generally speaking, people are quite money minded, blamed it on Deng Xiao Ping if you like, their behaviour tend to be more capitalist than socialist, forget about communist. Some earned their money legally, others tend to do it "black hearted" (a popular word in China). So it is your luck who you met in your dealing.

 

[bladerunner]

That's your opinion. Others see opportunity, culture, vibrant cities, and warm-hearted people. Perhaps you were too blind to see it?

You could be describing anyone of dozens of countries.

Actually politics aside my reasons could be very similar to that of rhino's and spartans. Interesting place to visit for a couple of weeks but................ it just doest quite " do it" as a place to live and work.
Besides Queenstown where I live most of the time is too fantastic a place to want to move. Not only is it a world class ski resort, its the gateway to all the scenic South Island and i indulge in all the outdoor stuff like you do plus flying and gliding.It would be a big ask to give it up.

About 3yrs ago and after a couple of yrs of solid research a friend of my daughters and her partner wanted them to go into partnership to set up a franchise mainly to cater for the caucasian expacts and well to do Chinese who think its cool to have European tastes. I took a interest in the research, because if my daughter wanted in I guess I would have been asked for a loan etc etc. In the end both parties decided China was too risky , and my daughter being more interested inher medical career, declined the offer of a partnership.

Their friend played safe and went to Japan instead, needless to say to date he has been pretty successful in Japan with his idea.

However when I made trips to China since then, I often wonder if it might have been as successful in China if they had decided to go ahead, and I often look for pointers on whether it was a good deciscion, on deciding not to try their luck in China.

By the way , have you read xywdx 's view on Chinese workers and uni grads.

Futhermore hast DEngs No2 son emigrated to America.? followed by tens of thousands annually of Chinese to other parts of the world. Theres gotta be a message there somewhere

 

[RedMercury]

You could be describing anyone of dozens of countries.

Actually politics aside my reasons could be very similar to that of rhino's and spartans. Interesting place to visit for a couple of weeks but................ it just doest quite " do it" as a place to live and work.
Besides Queenstown where I live most of the time is too fantastic a place to want to move. Not only is it a world class ski resort, its the gateway to all the scenic South Island and i indulge in all the outdoor stuff like you do plus flying and gliding.It would be a big ask to give it up.

About 3yrs ago and after a couple of yrs of solid research a friend of my daughters and her partner wanted them to go into partnership to set up a franchise mainly to cater for the caucasian expacts and well to do Chinese who think its cool to have European tastes. I took a interest in the research, because if my daughter wanted in I guess I would have been asked for a loan etc etc. In the end both parties decided China was too risky , and my daughter being more interested inher medical career, declined the offer of a partnership.

Their friend played safe and went to Japan instead, needless to say to date he has been pretty successful in Japan with his idea.

However when I made trips to China since then, I often wonder if it might have been as successful in China if they had decided to go ahead, and I often look for pointers on whether it was a good deciscion, on deciding not to try their luck in China.

By the way , have you read xywdx 's view on Chinese workers and uni grads.

Futhermore hast DEngs No2 son emigrated to America.? followed by tens of thousands annually of Chinese to other parts of the world. Theres gotta be a message there somewhere

If its such a crappy place with people fleeing like rats from a sinking ship, and you have no business nor cultural interest there, why do you care? What's it to you? Why are you here?

 

[Schumacher]

.......
About 3yrs ago and after a couple of yrs of solid research a friend of my daughters and her partner wanted them to go into partnership to set up a franchise mainly to cater for the caucasian expacts and well to do Chinese who think its cool to have European tastes. I took a interest in the research, because if my daughter wanted in I guess I would have been asked for a loan etc etc. In the end both parties decided China was too risky , and my daughter being more interested inher medical career, declined the offer of a partnership.

Their friend played safe and went to Japan instead, needless to say to date he has been pretty successful in Japan with his idea.
........

Hmm .... I wonder what is the point of this little story of your friend ? You do know China is the second largest destination of FDI after US, don't you ?
I sure hope you're not trying to imply that all those foreign investors to China are dumb and your friend is the smart one, or is it the other way around ?

 

[Obcession]

You could be describing anyone of dozens of countries.

Actually politics aside my reasons could be very similar to that of rhino's and spartans. Interesting place to visit for a couple of weeks but................ it just doest quite " do it" as a place to live and work.
Besides Queenstown where I live most of the time is too fantastic a place to want to move. Not only is it a world class ski resort, its the gateway to all the scenic South Island and i indulge in all the outdoor stuff like you do plus flying and gliding.It would be a big ask to give it up.

About 3yrs ago and after a couple of yrs of solid research a friend of my daughters and her partner wanted them to go into partnership to set up a franchise mainly to cater for the caucasian expacts and well to do Chinese who think its cool to have European tastes. I took a interest in the research, because if my daughter wanted in I guess I would have been asked for a loan etc etc. In the end both parties decided China was too risky , and my daughter being more interested inher medical career, declined the offer of a partnership.

Their friend played safe and went to Japan instead, needless to say to date he has been pretty successful in Japan with his idea.

However when I made trips to China since then, I often wonder if it might have been as successful in China if they had decided to go ahead, and I often look for pointers on whether it was a good deciscion, on deciding not to try their luck in China.

By the way , have you read xywdx 's view on Chinese workers and uni grads.

Futhermore hast DEngs No2 son emigrated to America.? followed by tens of thousands annually of Chinese to other parts of the world. Theres gotta be a message there somewhere

Sorry, but I couldn't get the point of the first part of your post.

I have read xywdx's post. I never said the Chinese education system was perfect. There must be a reason why so many Chinese are going overseas to be educated now. This point I never refuted. The posts I've made before are in direct response to your remark: "there is nothing I saw there that made me want to live there" or something to that effect. Personally, if you can't find something to appreciate in a country as vast and as diverse as China, that's pretty sad.

Why do Chinese immigrate to overseas? Before we jump on this question, let's ask: why do foreigners move to China? Why do Germans move to Britain? Why do Saudis move to France? Why do Russians move to Israel?

 

[SampanViking]

Modern China is a huge global trading nation and so of course many of its citizens go abroad, to destinations all over the world, each year to build this trade and development network.

Likewise many people in poorer countries are now keen to enter China and work their legally or otherwise.

These numbers though; in the Chinese context, still remain largely insignificant.

However as BD Popeye would say "Stay on Topic - Stay on Topic" as this is a thread about people who have or who want to move to China and the practical problems they fear or actually face.

Lets not allow a simple and strait forward thread be diverted to sad and tired old ground.

 

[bladerunner]

Hmm .... I wonder what is the point of this little story of your friend ? You do know China is the second largest destination of FDI after US, don't you ?
I sure hope you're not trying to imply that all those foreign investors to China are dumb and your friend is the smart one, or is it the other way around ?

Im not implying anything of the sort, and I dont think one can really compare foreign public companies with shareholders money from a public offering or something, to a young couple with personal savings and a loan from their respective parents. nor does it have anything to do with being smarter or dumber than the next person but perhaps a bit of relief that one made the right call. Perhaps you might want to put a million or so up in a startup in China, and examine your thought processes.

The story of my daughters friend exploration into trying out a business in China was to illustrate of what I felt about China came from a couple of yrs of research by this person, and not the result of a two minute thought processs while in front of my computer. At the time it was too risky in relation to his circumstances.so he went for the safer bet.

I cant get to specific because the person still wants to go back, but this time with a lot more cash and backers from his successful venture in Japan

 

[bladerunner]

If its such a crappy place with people fleeing like rats from a sinking ship, and you have no business nor cultural interest there, why do you care? What's it to you? Why are you here?

Actually it might come as a surprise to you, but I actually do care.

You may have missed my posts towards the end of last and begining of this year describing my wifes study at Peking university and my own trip there. Shes a school teacher and was selected to go to Peking University to improve her Chinese under the Chinese govts Confucious institute plan.Although its not her main role (Shes an art teacher) She looks after students from China, especially ones seeking higher qualifications in the form of Post Graduate studies, and helping them with their English requirements necessary for their thesis etc for PHD's and Masters etc.

Theres one young dude who I get on very well with an who she tutored, about to head back to China with a Phd in his MBA? very positive hes gonna earn zillions. Anyway he promised to keep in touch and let us know how he gets onHes basing his idea in China, on the idea of a earlier student who went to the US and hit the jack pot in New York. That particular student sold out for $80million in very quick time, not bad for someone in his mid 30's.and doing it all on your own.

 

[bladerunner]

Sorry, but I couldn't get the point of the first part of your post.........(plus)The posts I've made before are in direct response to your remark: "there is nothing I saw there that made me want to live there" or something to that effect. Personally, if you can't find something to appreciate in a country as vast and as diverse as China, that's pretty sad.

If its the first paragraph its me having a rant, because to me you didn't have a problem with Rhino and Spartan coming to the conclusion, that after many visits, they wouldnt like to live/preferred home.

Of course I saw some nice things and i still appreciate the opportunity that my daughters friend spoke off, in some ways I think its quite exciting, but somehow me being a anti CCP that comes from way back and the negatives such as polution etc that Typhung spoke of, plus large population masses couldnt persude me.
On this trip to China/ Tibet/ parts off?(guided tour this time) went to Shanghai, and being a train buff, rode as many fast trains to here there everywhere as time would allow.( I think I got annoyed with the tour guide for various reasons)

However for what its worth, I would not have stopped my daughter from going if she had decided to.

I have read xywdx's post. I never said the Chinese education system was perfect. There must be a reason why so many Chinese are going overseas to be educated now. This point I never refuted.

There was also the comment he made about the local hired help
which also reinforces Midlers views. Hey the book is biased, but not without some truths, and I did find it relatively interesting

Why do Chinese immigrate to overseas? Before we jump on this question, let's ask: why do foreigners move to China? Why do Germans move to Britain? Why do Saudis move to France? Why do Russians move to Israel?

[/QUOTE]

Mainly personal choice, involving opportunities lifestyle, political, etc

My point was that its no secret that China has been trying to attract the best back, but with disappointing results. Perhaps we should be asking why and offering constructive suggestions, over than above the usual IP,and the difficulty for private individuals to get decent funding for their business ideas?