Build your perfect medieval army!

solarz

Brigadier
Rules:

- You can use any pre-gunpowder technology. You must be able to back up any technology you use with reliable sources upon demand. You can't use technology that didn't exist before 1800 or that uses gunpowder. (i.e. no Titanium Armored knights, or medieval machine guns!)

- Your army is limited to 10,000 soldiers, and any combination of infantry, cavalry, and machinery.

- Your army must be designed to be as formidable and as versatile as possible, capable of fighting, and winning, in a variety of scenarios and terrains, and against a variety of opponents. Be sure to describe your strategy and tactics.

- You can assume that you are the commander of your army, and that your soldiers are all well-trained and well-disciplined.
 
Last edited:

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
No gunpowder but before 1800... interesting. That means that a 14th century Yuan handgone isn't allow but a field glass is:D?

I am also curious whether we are allowed to create an amalmagation of an army out of troops from different cultures. Let's say I want Chinese triple-bow sieged crossbows deployed alongside European counterweight trebuchet or platearmoured knights with Manchu Horsemen. Going one step beyond- can we create "composite" warriors like those featured in the "Anachronism" card game (like giving Aztec warriors steel swords and horseriding capabilities).
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
3 words: Elite samurai corps.

Personally I think the samurai, like Shaolin monks, are a bit overrated due to their prominence in popular media. Here is why:

1) The samurai, like European Knights, take years of training. There is a high cost to performance ratio involved.
2) Although the samurai sword is one of the sharpest the world has ever seen on a large battlefield (not very often seen in Japan) polearms are going to be the determining factor.
3) Until they made contacts with the Portuguese the Japanese armor incorporated very little metal due to a scarcity of resources on the island nation. The Samurai armor, though cleverly designed, is still made primarily from bamboo and frankly I don't know how it compares with metal/leather armor.
 

raider1001

New Member
No gun powder eh? The rule of thumb in warfare is that those that use the best long range weapon and mobility always win, then Genghis Khan's horse archers will blow all competition out of water, period. If you leave out mobility though, then the English longbow and men-at-arm combo is pretty powerful too.
 

solarz

Brigadier
No gunpowder but before 1800... interesting. That means that a 14th century Yuan handgone isn't allow but a field glass is:D?

I am also curious whether we are allowed to create an amalmagation of an army out of troops from different cultures. Let's say I want Chinese triple-bow sieged crossbows deployed alongside European counterweight trebuchet or platearmoured knights with Manchu Horsemen. Going one step beyond- can we create "composite" warriors like those featured in the "Anachronism" card game (like giving Aztec warriors steel swords and horseriding capabilities).

Sure, that's the fun part! :D

No gun powder eh? The rule of thumb in warfare is that those that use the best long range weapon and mobility always win, then Genghis Khan's horse archers will blow all competition out of water, period. If you leave out mobility though, then the English longbow and men-at-arm combo is pretty powerful too.

Not necessarily! The mamelukes decisively defeated the Mongols, and the Ming peasants drove Yuan cavalry back to the Mongolian Plains. I'm sure some forum members can think of an army composition that will slaughter the typical Mongol army! :D
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Cool, we get to have composite armies. I'm get try to piece my army together one step at a time though since I don't like to hurry things.

For heavy duty firepower I will need 1000 soldiers armed with divine-shoulder crossbows, a Song Dynasty crossbow capable of piercing oak at 150 paces. About 900 of them will employ the standard bow with composite prod while the 100 "elite" members will use bows will steel-spring prods with drawstrengths up to 1000 pounds. I decided to integrate the steel prod with a Chinese crossbow instead of picking the European arbalest since the sight and relatively "cleverness" of the Chinese crossbow mechanism enables more accurate shooting at longer ranges. The rate of fire will be sustained by firing rotation (not unsimilar to the tactic used by musketeers but no firearms) of three rows of crossbowmen who load and fire their crossbows at intervals. Genoese paiveses will be used to protect the crossbowmen from enemy fire and another 1000 Swiss Halberdiers, intermingled amongst the crossbowmen, will provide protection against charging cavalry.

Two thousand soldiers down, another 8000 to go!
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Personally I think the samurai, like Shaolin monks, are a bit overrated due to their prominence in popular media. Here is why:

1) The samurai, like European Knights, take years of training. There is a high cost to performance ratio involved.
2) Although the samurai sword is one of the sharpest the world has ever seen on a large battlefield (not very often seen in Japan) polearms are going to be the determining factor.
3) Until they made contacts with the Portuguese the Japanese armor incorporated very little metal due to a scarcity of resources on the island nation. The Samurai armor, though cleverly designed, is still made primarily from bamboo and frankly I don't know how it compares with metal/leather armor.

All of those things are true, but I think that having a smaller unit (500-1000 men) of mounted samurai would be one hell of an asset to any medieval army, because no one could mix it up in a melee like a samurai, with their years of honed skill and katana blade. The samurai could ride and shoot from horseback with great skill as well, so they're a versatile force. Basically I would intend to use this force as a mobile element to hit a decisive spot in the battle or to plug a gap in my own line or fend off a flanking attempt, coming in shooting then probably dismounting to cut the enemy up in the confused hand-to-hand brawls typical of infantry combat in those days.

But I agree that using samurai for a large part of your force probably wouldn't work against a more organized force, since the samurai were so used to single combat. They had that problem against the Mongols at Hakata Bay, even though they did manage to get the Mongols to retreat. Japanese armies defeated the Mongols on the coast of Japan twice, but it's unclear to me how much of that was because of the circumstances and Mongol decision making. I don't know what would have happened if the Mongols had gotten ashore truly in force.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
mmhmmmm i assume 10K men includes only the fighting men and not the logisitic

Can I have:

2000 Swiss pike,
3000 Mongol horse archers
2000 Japanese samurai - medium skirmishers
2000 English long bowmen
900 Chinese/Islamic Siege Engineers and Armorers - with light siege equipment such as traction catapults, ballistas, flame throwers (no rockets ehh? you know the Chinese have been using MRL and cannons since the 1200s)
100 General + body guard heavy European knights

Movement in enemy territory,
some mongols horse archers in troops of 50 are sent as scouts, to the front, side and rear. if they detect enemy, they will assess their strength and determine if they should retreat or press an attack if favorable. They are equipped with Chinese signal arrows which can allow them to communicate if they are ambushed; if they encounter a strong defensive position and is retreating; or if they had found a weakness in the enemy line to be exploited and more troops are to be sent. Other mongol troops in squadron of 500 will be used to wreak havoc behind enemy lines, raid towns, kill villagers, staking people, building pyramids of heads, destroy assembling forces etc.

the Swiss pike is divided into the vanguards and the rearguards. Where the Japanese samurai will protect the flanks. The long bowmen will march in front of the rear guard while the general + body guard travels in the center.

If the mongols fails to detect an ambush for the main army, and an ambush does take place. the Japanese will charge in and engage the ambushers to allow the Swiss pike to form up and the English long bows to form up (and to allow the engineering corp to form their train into defensive barricades. once that is complete the Japanese samurai will retreat and remain as a reserve force; the English long bowmen then plummets the enemy with 25~30 arrows per minute. The mongols will be recalled and intrinsically tasked to strike at the enemy's rear.

Pitch battle.

the Swiss pike will form the front of the army 2 ranks of 4 men deep to deter heavy cavalry charges. the english long bowmen are lined behind them with the siege engineers will set up their traction catapults to launch toxic smoke bombs and fire balls (such as petroleum wax with sulfur and chicken feathers, pots of venomous snakes, pots of flamable oils) at the enemy and the battlefield to break up assault formations (a 20 men traction catapult should through a 6 kg weight around 100 m and 3 kg weight around 200 m), The long bowmen will pepper the enemy out to a range of 200m).

The mongols will be deployed to the more exposed flank while the Japanese to the more secure flank. the mongols will play an agressive role in doing their famous attack pattern within bow reach but too far for defender's pikes to reach. The mongols also raids the rear of the enemy force preventing them from moving out of range of the english and the siege weapons. A smaller division of samurai will guard the exposed flank.

this continues until the enemy break rank (either because they are choking on poisonous gases or because where their formation should be is blocked by a flaming fields or by the weight of arrows). where the pikemen will move up in formation while the samurai will charge the front wile the mongols will charge the rear.

Siege

If the the guarantee of safety for surrender was not convincing enough with the staked bodies and pyramids of heads, then a siege will ensure.

If the fortification is ill prepared, the Samurai will lead the assault with ladders to open the gates with the long bowmen keeping the defenders occupied. after which the mongols will charge in for the slaughter.

Siege engineers will build counter weight trebuchets, siege towers, rams, encirclement walls, tunnel etc if the city/fortress/castle is well defended and traditional siege will ensure.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Lezt:

Nice setup, the combination of English Longbowmen and Mongol mounted archers is a devastating force.

A few things though:

1- You didn't mention what your heavy European knights would be up to. Only 100 of them, and only acting as commander bodyguard?

2- Your tactics all seem to involve the samurai charging in first. :) I think that your samurai would take pretty heavy casualties, and as siegecrossbow said, they're rather hard to replace. Personally, if the role of the samurai is just to charge and draw enemy fire, I think the European knights would be much better suited for the role.

3- While siege engines are certainly essential for siege warfare, how useful would they be for field battles, especially if your forces are ambushed? Would they have time to set up the machines while under enemy attack?
 
Top