Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[mack8]

Imo there would be a grave mistake to delay J-36 and J-50 production until VCE engines are ready. They have made the same mistake with the J-35 where they diddle-dwaddled for too long until production. And it will erase the head start China got over the US 6th gen program. No, a J-36 powered with whatever engines available NOW, with current AESA, EO and avionics tech as found in the latest J-20A/J-35, and even with "just" PL-16 and PL-17 missiles will still be an absolute monster capability wise, VLO, high speed, long range, latest avionics and networking capabilities, long AAM reach etc. Perhaps it may not fully meet intended design specs, but it will still provide PLAAF with a massive capability leap.

 

[qwerty3173]

It's just an estimate based of a 60-ton MTOW, I think it's a pretty fair assumption considering that's a whopping ~42 percent fuel fraction, compared to a large flying wing design like B-2 which has around ~50 percent. Normal fighters right now have anywhere between 25-30 percent(Yes, MiG-31 has a fuel fraction of 45 percent but that's literally because the entire plane is just a fuel tank with engines bolted to it) at MTOW. However real numbers could be even higher with novel light weight fuel tanks etc.

We don't have spec on WS-15 powered J-20, so calculations are done with WS-10C since the equation requires specific fuel consumption of the engine but by comparing it to J-20 which conveniently also use WS-10C we could cancel the term out and find a range relative to J-20's range as a base estimate.

As for this, VCE engines(AETP program) was advertised to increase fuel efficiency by up to 25 percent(And this was relative to an already very efficient engine, the F-135) I just assumed Chinese efforts would amount to at least this amount of fuel saving and probably quite a bit more due to WS-10C being compared here would be 2 generations out of date. Also, the estimate that L/D ratio of J-36 would only be 30 percent better than J-20 considering its tailless blended body config with massive wing area is rather conservative and realistically I believe it could offer more aerodynamic efficiency improvement over J-20. If you account into these changes a combat radius of 2000nm becomes rather realistic

Actually, the 1100nm figure for j-20 is probably the value after equipping with drop tanks. Under normal loadouts without drop tanks most estimates show that the combat radius is more close to around 900nm

 

[Wrought]

Just a thought.

If the J-36 can fit the PL-17, couldn't this be launched at a distance of 500km against aircraft still on the ground?

Why would you launch A2A missiles against ground targets? Even if you somehow found yourself in that very unlikely scenario, the correct move is to pass the info along to a more suitable platform. Datalinks exist for a reason.

 

[latenlazy]

Actually, the 1100nm figure for j-20 is probably the value after equipping with drop tanks. Under normal loadouts without drop tanks most estimates show that the combat radius is more close to around 900nm

Early requirements documents stipulated 1200 nm.

 

[Tomboy]

Actually, the 1100nm figure for j-20 is probably the value after equipping with drop tanks. Under normal loadouts without drop tanks most estimates show that the combat radius is more close to around 900nm

Can J-20 actually equip drop tanks? I thought those were just external fuel tanks meant for ferrying and not actual combat

 

[qwerty3173]

Can J-20 actually equip drop tanks? I thought those were just external fuel tanks meant for ferrying and not actual combat

No reason they can't. Almost everything on a pylon is droppable even though many are not designed to be dropped. Famous instances include SK fighters dropping an autocannon pod by mistake during an exercise.

 

[AndrewS]

Why would you launch A2A missiles against ground targets? Even if you somehow found yourself in that very unlikely scenario, the correct move is to pass the info along to a more suitable platform. Datalinks exist for a reason.

There are no other suitable platforms.

The J-36 is the only all-aspect stealth aircraft that can reach 3000km away to Guam on the 2nd Island Chain.

And with a limited loadout, it is better to have A2A missiles which can also be used for soft targets like aircraft on the ground.

 

[AndrewS]

Can J-20 actually equip drop tanks? I thought those were just external fuel tanks meant for ferrying and not actual combat

TWZ article on J-20 drop tanks.

twz.com/7806/chinas-j-20-stealth-fighter-photographed-toting-massive-external-fuel-tanks

No reason they can't. Almost everything on a pylon is droppable even though many are not designed to be dropped. Famous instances include SK fighters dropping an autocannon pod by mistake during an exercise.

The F-22 pylons and drop tanks can be jettisoned.

So we should expect the same from the J-20

There are no other suitable platforms.

The J-36 is the only all-aspect stealth aircraft that can reach 3000km away to Guam on the 2nd Island Chain.

And with a limited loadout, it is better to have A2A missiles which can also be used for soft targets like aircraft on the ground.

Come to think of it, there shouldn't be any need to launch at 500km.

A J-36 should be able to get within 300km of a target without being detected.
So a PL-15 class missile should still work, for both A2A and precision ground attack

 

[Wrought]

There are no other suitable platforms.

The J-36 is the only all-aspect stealth aircraft that can reach 3000km away to Guam on the 2nd Island Chain.

And with a limited loadout, it is better to have A2A missiles which can also be used for soft targets like aircraft on the ground.

A DF-26 TEL is a suitable platform. A destroyer with CJ-10s is a suitable platform. It's called any sensor, any shooter for a reason.

And if PLAAF is stupid enough to send their most expensive assets out on their own without AEW&C and tankers and naval support and all the other critical aspects of the system that make it a system instead of Tom Cruise out there in his F-14, then they quite frankly deserve to lose.

 

[Deino]

Can we stop this nonsense? Really to think a PL-17 would be used as an AGM is just ridiculous based on what we know or do not know and especially when other means are much more likely.