EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

[Armand2REP]

EU Presidency Mulls Lifting China Arms Embargo

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 26 Jan 2010 12:57


BRUSSELS - The European Union's Spanish presidency is considering whether to lift the bloc's arms embargo on China, Spain's Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said Jan. 26.

Spain is "weighing the pros and cons" of the embargo, which Europe introduced after the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown on Chinese pro-democracy protesters, Moratinos told a press conference.
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The European Union has long agreed to reconsider the decision to ban the sale of arms to China, Moratinos said.

France has been one of the main supporters of lifting the ban and "Spain is following that line," he added.

"We are all aware of the new role which China is assuming in the world," and the desirability "to improve relations with China to ensure the best possible dialogue," said Moratinos, whose country holds the EU presidency for the first half of the year.

The time is right to "consider whether the consequences allow" for the embargo to be lifted, he underlined.

In 2008, the European parliament voted to retain the arms embargo as long as Beijing helps armed forces and groups involved in African conflicts in general.

Moratinos was reacting to reporters' questions on comments made by Spain's ambassador in Beijing.

"We hope to deepen discussions on lifting the ban" during Spain's six-month EU presidency, ambassador Carlos Blasco Villa tod the official English-language China Daily.

There is, nonetheless, a reticence to lift the embargo unless done in tandem with the United States, due to security implications, a diplomat added.

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[bd popeye]

Armand2REP, what do you think of the EU arms embargo against China?

 

[kroko]

There is, nonetheless, a reticence to lift the embargo unless done in tandem with the United States, due to security implications, a diplomat added.

In other words the embargo will never be lifted, which is good. It encourages china to develop its own tech, and not rely on others

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand2REP, what do you think of the EU arms embargo against China?

I'm all for it, not for the rationalisation of human rights abuse as advocated by the Council and American Congress, but for the rampant IP theft the PLA is guilty of. While the concept of selling China billions of French arms is appealing for our industries, we don't want to end up like Russia who has everything they sell them copied and competing with them on the open arms market. While China hasn't had much export success except to the third world, the quality of their equipment is increasing and at much cheaper levels than we can compete with. The first markets China will cut into are Russian, but it is only a matter of time before they get into the higher end. Selling them our equipment will only cut into our future exports. We would be selling out our future for a quick Franc.

 

[kwiekie]

What kind of military technology has EU to offer to China? Most critical technology has China already developed or obtained.

 

[montyp165]

I'm all for it, not for the rationalisation of human rights abuse as advocated by the Council and American Congress, but for the rampant IP theft the PLA is guilty of. While the concept of selling China billions of French arms is appealing for our industries, we don't want to end up like Russia who has everything they sell them copied and competing with them on the open arms market. While China hasn't had much export success except to the third world, the quality of their equipment is increasing and at much cheaper levels than we can compete with. The first markets China will cut into are Russian, but it is only a matter of time before they get into the higher end. Selling them our equipment will only cut into our future exports. We would be selling out our future for a quick Franc.

Historically, all the major powers have done something of this sort, which makes sense to building up military capabilities, even the US has done so in the past.

What kind of military technology has EU to offer to China? Most critical technology has China already developed or obtained.

Not only that, the civilian economic product development spurs the faster development of military hardware too.

 

[Armand2REP]

What kind of military technology has EU to offer to China? Most critical technology has China already developed or obtained.

Everything and anything... EU defence technologies are 30 years ahead of China.

 

[rhino123]

Everything and anything... EU defence technologies are 30 years ahead of China.

You seemed pretty confidence about EU's technology... but could you enlightened us to what technology are there specifically and not just drop a general statement.

It is like saying US technology is 50years ahead China, but the thing is... what technology? Space? Radar? Missiles? what?

 

[Armand2REP]

You seemed pretty confidence about EU's technology... but could you enlightened us to what technology are there specifically and not just drop a general statement.

It is like saying US technology is 50years ahead China, but the thing is... what technology? Space? Radar? Missiles? what?

Pretty much all of it, Chinese capabilities are that of Soviet clones from the 1970-80s. They are having a really hard time catching up in turbofan/turboshaft engines, sonar, diesal electrics, avionics, quality steel, satellite communications, naval aviation, quiet nuclear turbines, AESA and a host of others.

 

[tphuang]

Pretty much all of it, Chinese capabilities are that of Soviet clones from the 1970-80s. They are having a really hard time catching up in turbofan/turboshaft engines, sonar, diesal electrics, avionics, quality steel, satellite communications, naval aviation, quiet nuclear turbines, AESA and a host of others.

well, it looks like you don't really know much. This is what I wrote on European embargo on my blog a while ago.

Lifting European Arms Embargo
This was another story that really peaked in early 2005. At that time, China was still dependent on Russia for most of its military hardware. Just as it was about to be lifted, American and Japanese pressure on Europe + initial reluctance by several EU countries over the embargo thwarted the process. The American argument was that imports from Europe would significantly improve the capabilities of PLA and be harmful to US interests in a possible conflict with Taiwan. At this point, I don't think lifting the arms embargo would really mean that much, because PLA is unlikely to have access to too many systems that it needs and can't already obtain. That's probably why this issue has not been at the top of China's requests in its recent discussions with Europe. Even with the arms embargo on, China was still able to get key systems like Spey engine for JH-7 fighter bomber, key subsystems for Z-10 project, co-development of Z-15 helicopter, engines for Z-9G helicopter, Sky master surveillance radar, diesel engines for different ships, LR7 rescue submarine and key subsystems for diesel submarines. I think that lifting EU arms embargo at this point can still help China in different areas. I've always listed NH-90 helicopter, A330 tanker, advanced quiet technology for submarines, aerospace engines, Aster missiles and naval radar as things that PLA would be interested in from Europe that they can't already get. However, I'm not sure how eager European firms would be at supplying these systems. So I think that even if the EU embargo gets dropped, it's really not going to be a game changer. US and Japan will still protest this move, but it really isn't that significant militarily. There are obviously still certain subsystems that China would be interested, but they would be able to develop a less capable but still adequate version of that on their own. I think the most important gains from Europeans are from the civilian sector. China gained a lot from cooperating in hi-tech industry through joint ventures with Western companies. They gained quality control, production method and management skills that are just as important as the technology themselves.

As for soviet cloning, it has happened, but not as much as you think. Again, it seems like you are new to this forum, so have pretty much accepted a lot of common misconceptions. Please try to read through what a lot of more senior members write.