Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by tidalwave, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. Max Demian
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    Max Demian Junior Member
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    It took the rest of the world several decades to accomplish that.

    I don't know if you ever worked with patents, but they are not exactly recipe books. They are written in a very general language, with plenty of critical details left out. Having access to them will not necessarily help you as much as you seem to think.. You will still have to do most of the hard work yourself.
     
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  2. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    Let's stop with attacking each other and concentrate on the Thread topic. I've had enough of people getting rubbed the wrong way due to phrasings and whatnot.
    tidalwave does a great service to the thread by posting very technical documents and stuff. Instead of wondering about his ideology/political inclinations - we must be objective in appreciating the technical documents and information posted.
    It's all for understanding and gauging China's progress in semiconductor fabrication. That's the mission.
    Our vision is to have a stronger and resilient China.

    Ofcourse, those who disagree with tidalwave can post even more technical documents and news regarding China's lithography technology.
    We need more "wallclimbers" to bring in internal news from Chinese semiconductor industry.
     
  3. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    I was pointing out doing EUV from scratch by China is not easy take many years or may not come through.

    so you saying you not convinced that it should be easy?? What you trying to say.
     
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  4. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    EUV only uses reflective mirrors not lens due to lens made of fused silica which absorbs EUV light.
    The mirror is about 40 layers of alternate Mo/Si and each layer is 6.8nm thick.
    The surface of the mirror has to be very smooth , no more than 0.2nm RMS.. meaning the unevenness of the mirror is a few atoms thick.
    0.2nm RMS means only allow 2 atoms difference.
    Have to use ion beam to "sand" the layer to remove extra atoms.

    That's why its super difficult to make mirror for EUV optics. All optics vendors in China i talked to have not even heard such things ,






    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    Can we not "rotate" the Silicon wafer and do the lithography rather than using fast mechanized motions that put heavy requirements of precision?
    @tidalwave
     
  6. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    That's exactly what US government wants.
     
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  7. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    that's the stepper technology. I haven't heard SMEE has trouble with that.
     
  8. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    This is what i am trying to say. Pardon if its unfeasible.
     

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  9. ILikeChina
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    ILikeChina Junior Member
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    @tidalwawe
    Maybe try to talk to someone on Twitter, there are many Chinese ambassadors now on Twitter. If they don't listen about the importance of EUV technology, there is a possibility that someone might read it and opens their contacts.
     
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  10. AndrewS
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    AndrewS Captain
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    The US government (aka Trump) wanted China to capitulate and agree to whatever Trump wanted in the trade war.
    The national security guys in the USA wanted Huawei to go bankrupt and stop supplying 4G/5G infrastructure.

    Neither have gotten what they wanted.

    For Huawei, the 4G/5G infrastructure side doesn't need the latest semiconductor process nodes.
    It's a relatively small number of chips which have a reliable electricity supply, so older nodes work out better.

    The smartphone side is not national security related, but it does benefit from access to the latest semiconductor process nodes which use less battery electricity.
    That is what is being really affected with EUV and Entity List restrictions.

    So Huawei is pivoting towards a 5G-enabled "internet of things" for example, which relies on simpler chips. and should be a much larger market than smartphones.
     

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