Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by tidalwave, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    I talk a number of prominent chinese vendors on optics and lasers. Their products no where near the spec needed to produce EUV lithography. I explore their capability, and I just don't think they have the tools and means to do it currently.
    So, what needed is almost like a industrial revolution from grass root level, or sputnik moment to spur them dig deeper.. much more than Huawei current effort of developing Harmony OS or HMS to replace Google or design its own chips...

    I inquire SMEE shanghai maker of IC scanner and they dont even respond. That's bad. Maybe I can help but judging their nonresponse, they have no confidence on their product.
    Definitely needs government level to step in to spur this.

    Industrially they are all scattered, and doesn't have cure it all coherent response
     
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  2. sinophilia
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    sinophilia New Member
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    I know they are behind but this sounds worse than I felt. Not good news.
     
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  3. Appix
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    Appix New Member
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    Private companies will not help (neoliberalism: the holy economic religion of West-Europeans and Muricans that private entrepreneurs are the best) when you seek earth-shattering technological advancements. You need heavy state-involvement to advance and achieve those tech goals. Private entrepreneurs have heavy limits and seek only fast buick and when they can do it easily they will absolutely not care for long term investments only for the sake of technological advancement.
     
    #203 Appix, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  4. sinophilia
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    sinophilia New Member
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    Is the state not incentivizing and financing catch-up in this area?
     
  5. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    not enough in the very crucial area
    They invest in some IC manufacturing packaging companies.
    they spell out self reliance of 70% in 2025 that's about it. Basically they have no experts inside their government to advise on such. I try to talk to them but they have no responses. Basically, they don't easily trust outsiders

    But they have not spell out specific guideline in certain tech breakthrough.
    what they should do is spell out specific.
    like have $300 million investment if one can demo sample for certian EUV mirror, high power laser,
    droplet generator, superconductor magnet, quantum cascade laser, projection lens.
    or tools that can make the above parts. magnetro sputtering of material as thin as 6.8nm,
     
    #205 tidalwave, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  6. sinophilia
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    sinophilia New Member
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    I mean are you actually saying the government is too incompetent to even spell things out specifically?

    No offense to anyone, but the Chinese government is nothing like India's or Russia.

    I doubt this is the issue. Maybe everyone here is being more pessimistic than is reasonable?
     
  7. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    Depend on which area.
    Infrastructure and transportation, they did hell of a job.
    High-speed rail is their proudest achievement.

    But this is not what this thread is about
     
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  8. Appix
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    Appix New Member
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  9. Chish
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    Chish New Member
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    I think their proudest achievement is getting 800 millions Chinese out of poverty.
     
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  10. Max Demian
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    Max Demian Junior Member
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    I don't know about that. Private companies bet billions of $ on EUV and decades of effort before the technology finally matured enough for HVM.
     

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