Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by tidalwave, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    All the critical Optical components of ASML lithography equipment is supplied by Carl Zeiss.
    A single mirror and lens in the optics are thin film coated with more than 50 layers of materials.

    The light source is supplied by Cymer. Optics by Zeiss. ASML doesn't have anything worthwhile to steal. They got some softwares that's about it






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    #1 tidalwave, Apr 29, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  2. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    The light source using in the ASML lithography equipment is by Cymer.

    plasma discharge sources for EUV.

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  3. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Colonel

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    But they (ASML) are the one who put together various high tech part .. so it is still super special to me
     
  4. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    Lenovo? Lol
     
  5. Biscuits
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    Biscuits Junior Member
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    how is this relevant to strategic defense of China? Post it to the world strategic forum, maybe netherlands strategy (if there is one)
     
  6. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    1)China own development effort on lithography equipment, some details inside on ASML equipment would shed some light into it.

    2)Recent allegation of China state sponsored theft of ASML IP.

    3)Alot of Chinese companies are affected by trump's banning of US Semiconductor equipments. Some have turned to ASML.

    4)recent fire in ASML caused significant delay of equipment to China order. Due to US pressure, instead of outright banning, ASML could very well planned to delay China Semiconductor development.

    5)also circulation that US put pressure on ASML not to hire Chinese on their R&D

    Alot happened behind the scene.

    I have seen your replies to those related threads before. Maybe the question of how it related to China, you should ask yourself instead.

    Why don't you get engaged into technical questions I prefer those instead of political questions.

    I particularly interested in setup the complicated optical simulation using Zemax software I think it would be helpful for China lithography development effort.
     
    #6 tidalwave, Apr 29, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  7. Biscuits
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    Biscuits Junior Member
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    1) different companies would have their own methods. For the same reason we do not put Arleigh Burke discussion into Type 055 discussion, we should not put Dutch lithography equipment into the Chinese strategic discussion. Or at least so I feel.

    2) disproved fake news from ill reputable US mouthpiece. Samsung was the culprit.

    3 & 4) may be covered in the trade war thread. America has already lost so much credibility as a supplier. First the self made pitfall with ZTE, leading to severe damage for Qualcomm, sending afterquakes through the entire electronics industry (including big losses for national champion Apple) for no measurable gain. Then the unlucky events of the 737 Max crashes and the frantic failed coverup. Any more “underhanded” action, and I believe the companies will riot, if they don’t perish first.

    5) Racist actions from the regime is not a new practice, although Trump seems willing to tap into it more than his predecessors. Pragmatically speaking, keeping out foreign knowhow can be a worthwhile trade for additional internal stability.

    At the same time, I believe China should tighten it’s controls on cooperation projects. Right now, they’re operating at a very very low alert stance, where scientists work with whomever they want for the sake of advancing human knowledge. But that’s not what many competitors think...

    There’s a lot of technical discussion that can be undertaken, I just feel like a thread on Dutch stuff should be in the world forum, unless it is co produced with China(?)

    Regarding whether it should be bought for domestic companies, I must say an emphatic “no”. What companies need right now is not a new machine to spend money on integrating, but to get orders under the belt.

    W/O large orders, there will be no profitability and no expansion. Semiconductor industry is low margin - labor intensive, which means a “jump” start is required to get it running on a large scale.

    The best way to expand the industry would be to institute a “soft” ban of using foreign labor. For example, a factory not located on the mainland might be forced to undergo “national security” checks on all it’s produce.

    Of course, that would cause bad blood on the eve of a quite advantageous trade deal with the US, who will (rightly) perceive such measures as unfair and probably try to negotiate out of them.
     
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  8. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Senior Member
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    There was an allegation sure. But more recent reports state that it was Samsung who financed that Chinese company to clone ASML's software IP.
    One could also argue until recently that Apple also did little more than software on top of market available components in terms of smartphones. They still had a huge business doing precisely that.
     
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  9. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    Very insightful and enlightening. The world of semiconductor industry is complex and mesmerizing.
     
  10. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    Semiconductor industry is very much important to the strategic defence of China. Extremely important. As far as I know, the F35 core processors are from Harris and seems to be Intel designs. China needs a strong semiconductor industry for better, strong and reliable C4ISTAR capabilities too.
     
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