Genome and Genetics Disccussions (Stay within SD Rules)

manqiangrexue said:

There is also a strong genetic component to it. Asians tend to have greater instantaneous explosive power and dexterity, making them excellent at sports like weightlifting and table tennis. However, on average, they don't grow quite as large so in the heavyweight categories, their talent selection drops off steeply, opening those levels to Eastern Europeans. In the 100m dash, Su Bingtian can actually lead up to the 30 meter mark before being overtaken. Africans in places like Kenya and Ethiopia have actually evolved unique morphological adaptations for traveling long distances; their leg muscles bundle at the top and taper down very thinly towards the ankle, giving an equine look, which helps them conserve energy while jogging. White people are good at swimming... I cannot explain that LOL. I've also heard that black people have the highest average muscle density, making it slightly more difficult for them to swim (since they sink more) but this allows greater power generation for sprinting and jumping. All the best basketball players are black and it's not because their families were wealthier and could afford better training/nutrition than their white colleagues.

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vesicles said:

I do not believe in the genetic thing at all. Not one bit. I still remember people used to argue that Asians are too weak and lack explosiveness to run 100M dash. Yet, Japan won the Silver in 100M. China was #4.

Although we look differently from outside, our genetic makeup is surprisingly similar. The average genetic differences between human is less than 0.1%. And taking into account of all the other environmental differences among different nations, that small genetic difference between human means absolutely nothing. Heck, Our DNA shares 99% homology with that of chimpanzees.

All those supposedly genetic differences between white and black are nasty rumors spread by those white supremacists who tried to keep people of other skin colors out of supposedly "their domain". All rumors.

People used to say black people couldn't fly because of their blood vessels. Yet, Tuskegee Airmen were some of the best fighter pilots in the WWII. People say black people cant swim because of some differences in their muscle density. Yet, we just got an African American winning gold in women's 100M freestyle. We also got an African American girl who dominated the gymnastics competition, which has been thought be a strength of agile Asians.

All these supposed genetic differences are all BS. No matter who you are and what skin color you have, you work hard and you work smart. You will achieve anything that any other human being can. Period!

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manqiangrexue said:

That sounds extremely Disney. This is not about white supremacists saying whites are superior. This is science saying that different races of people inherently excel at different things. If hard work is all it took, then basically all the medals would go to countries like China, Russia, North Korea, etc... You can't work harder than they do; there simply is no room. 0.1% genetic difference is HUGE; it's the difference between someone who could never walk or talk and dies at age 2 vs an athlete or scientist. Was it you who said that you were a professor at the Houston medical center? Then you shouldn't use the example of the African American swimmer or gymnast who won gold because scientists look at trends and charts; they do not draw conclusions on 1 specimen or sample. Of all the swimming champions, what percent are Asian? African? Very very very very small. Of the 8 men in the finals at the 100m, how many were black this year? In the last 10 Olympic cycles, how many 100-meter dash champions were black? White? Asian? In the last 10 Olympic cycles, how many weightlifting Champions were Asian? How about in the smaller categories? How about in the larger categories? These are the trends that a scientist should be looking at to draw conclusions, NOT single cases, first time occurrences, etc... To put it even more simply, a person of average genetic size and build could never play for the superbowl no matter how hard he trained. No Asian in history has ever won a world or Olympic gold medal in the 100 meter dash and it's not because they don't train as hard.

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vesicles said:

It's not about being Disney. It's actually about science. I actually know a thing or two about science. All the supposed genetic differences between people with different skin colors are pseudoscience at best and most likely voodoo and superstition. And at worst, racially motivated. If such genetic barrier exists, Then why even try to train for the 100M dash if Chinese are genetically inferior at such feat? It's such a pity that you willingly put yourself in a box, where you decide to imprison yourself. I whole-heartedly encourage you to jump out of the box. You will achieve unbelievable things. It's a state of mind. If you have already told yourself that you can't do it, how can you ever do it? It's like a self-fulfilled prophecy.

So many factors influence the outcome of a competition. And so many factors influence the physical abilities of an individual athlete. Nutrition, training techniques, etc. Asians including Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are getting taller and bigger. Not because of any change in genetic factors but change in diet. Asians born and live in western countries are as big and as tall as whites in those countries.

Also keep in mind that I also said "work smarter" in my last post. In addition to raw physical abilities, training is important. How you train will determine how strong and how fast you can be. And training techniques depend on science. Yes, you are correct that simply working hard won't get you too far. Learning how to work smarter is even more important. That's why Chinese sports teams hire so many western coaches. And they improve in those traditionally western dominated fields, like swimming. And foreign teams hire Chinese coaches to teach them how to train in Chinese dominated fields. That's why other nations are catching up in the traditionally Chinese dominated fields like diving. THIS is science. Not all the genetic BS.

This is my last post on this issue.

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vesicles said:

I do not believe in the genetic thing at all. Not one bit. I still remember people used to argue that Asians are too weak and lack explosiveness to run 100M dash. Yet, Japan won the Silver in 100M. China was #4.

Although we look differently from outside, our genetic makeup is surprisingly similar. The average genetic differences between human is less than 0.1%. And taking into account of all the other environmental differences among different nations, that small genetic difference between human means absolutely nothing. Heck, Our DNA shares 99% homology with that of chimpanzees.

All those supposedly genetic differences between white and black are nasty rumors spread by those white supremacists who tried to keep people of other skin colors out of supposedly "their domain". All rumors.

People used to say black people couldn't fly because of their blood vessels. Yet, Tuskegee Airmen were some of the best fighter pilots in the WWII. People say black people cant swim because of some differences in their muscle density. Yet, we just got an African American winning gold in women's 100M freestyle. We also got an African American girl who dominated the gymnastics competition, which has been thought be a strength of agile Asians.

All these supposed genetic differences are all BS. No matter who you are and what skin color you have, you work hard and you work smart. You will achieve anything that any other human being can. Period!

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manqiangrexue said:

Oh, you know a thing or two about science but you think that genetics is BS/voodoo/pseudoscience? LOL I actually know a thing or two about science; I did my PhD in human genetics and I worked for Baylor College of Medicine as a genetic disease variant curator before moving to Mount Sinai's medical genetics department in NY. Not all people are the same. There are many genetic diseases that certain groups of people are highly susceptible to but other groups are basically free from. (We have a testing panel specifically for Ashkenazi Jews called the AJ panel, and it's not because we're openly racists; it's because there are genetic diseases that occur very frequently in that population that are non-existent in Asians or blacks.) Do you understand that? That's just a fact. If you do understand that, then you can imagine that just as genetic differences can cause disease they can also appear in a beneficial way, making certain groups of people more advantaged at certain tasks. Asians are getting taller because they were far shorter than their genetic potential in the past due to nutritional shortages. Once that nutritional gap is patched, they can become taller, up to their genetic potential; doesn't mean the more food they get the taller the grow, indefinitely LOL. And it also does not mean that all people of different races are the same height genetically. There are certain villages in Africa or places in the Alps where the average male height exceeds 185cm and it's NOT because they get more nutrition than your average American.

You keep saying people are all the same but you don't actually provide any answers to my questions or evidence. You're trying to keep it as hazy as possible because you know you're wrong. Do you really believe that Bolt's success in running is because he's found a perfect method of training that no one else knows? Are all the American 100-meter dash specialists black because the US national team coaches decided to reserve those special training methods only for its black athletes? Is the majority of the NBA black because black basketball players have found a secret that they've kept from all the other races? Are nearly all American swimming champions white because the national swimming coaches refuse to use the real good training methods on their black athletes?

It's not nearly that I'm confining myself to a box; it's that I want to find what I'm naturally good at so I can use that natural advantage to excel rather than wasting all my efforts on something that I'm genetically poorly suited for only to end up mediocre at best. That is working smart.

I won't hold you to your promise of the last post being your final on the topic. If you have any good clear answers, I'd like to hear them. But if you simply said that because you know you cannot continue dodging questions, being non-specific, and generally wrong, then feel free to disengage. My opinion of your knowledge in military matters is unshaken.

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solarz said:

The age old nurture vs nature debate!

My opinion is that the debate is irrelevant. Are there genetic differences between groups of people? Absolutely! Tibetans are genetically adapted to living in high altitudes. Caucasians have a genetic mutation that allows them to digest lactose even as adults. Asians have a genetic mutation that gives them thicker hair and more sweat glands (and, apparently, smaller breasts!).

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, all of those differences can be overcome. Many Han people get used to living in high tibetan plateaus. I have a friend who's from Zhejiang. Her family used to run inns in Tibet, and she said she experienced no adverse effects whatsoever.

I grew up drinking milk. I stopped for about ten years between 15 and 25. When I first started again, I experienced some mild lactose intolerance symptoms, but as I kept on, they disappeared. My wife, who grew up in China, and my mom, still can't drink unboiled milk without get an upset stomach.

The truth is, you cannot separate nature from nurture. Genetics may predispose an individual toward a trait, whether that's disease or aptitude, but that individual's upbringing brings in such huge variability that it's impossible to predict the manifestation of that trait based only on genetics.

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