Future PLAN orbat discussion

Discussion in 'Navy' started by kwaigonegin, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Jura
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    Jura General

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    I'll make it a new post,

    the Zumwalts and LCSs are - up projects, but

    Burke x Type 052D

    should be 'fair' as currently they're 'mainstays' of either navy
     
  2. Iron Man
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    Iron Man Major
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    That's like saying a high school quarterback being compared to a NFL quarterback is a "fair" comparison just because they're both quarterbacks. Yeah, that sounds fair.
     
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  3. AndrewS
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    AndrewS Captain
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    I think you missed the point.

    We can already see a cost difference where Chinese warships are 4x cheaper.
    And yes, there are differences in the internals and sizes etc.
    But they are broadly comparable in terms of actual capabilities.

    Even if we are very generous in favour of the US Navy, it is still more than reasonable to use PPP which implies Chinese warships are only 2x cheaper.
     
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  4. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    Now that is straight up a "Muh American stuff are forever better than anyone's" line of thought. Maybe put some effort in taking an objective comparison and "rebut" by saying something like
    China's 052D are inferior to US AB flight II, in the area of radars, because... (link) (link) (scientific paper).
    Quite the Lil effort. Very enlightening and conductive.
    And NO, Chinese ships aren't inferior to US ships. PPP is to be taken into account, even if it may be quite displeasurable to USN lovers.
     
  5. Brainsuker
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    Brainsuker New Member
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    Actually, if you ignore the USD value to the Chinese ships cost, they're more expensive than the US one. Chinese paid 6 billion RMB for their Type-55. While Zumwalt 4 billion USD. US people paid everything with USD, while Chinese use RMB. Just because 1 USD is around 6 - 7 RMB now, it doesn't mean that Chinese paid burger with equivalent of 5 USD value. Because Chinese calculate their cost with RMB, and not USD.

    So for Chinese to pay 6 billion RMB is quite a painstaking for their economy, just like the US government painfully paid 4250 M USD for their Zumwalt.
     
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  6. Iron Man
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    Iron Man Major
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    "Broadly" as used here is absolutely and unequivocally a weasel word, inserted to mean literally whatever you want it to mean. If you think that a ship that is one third smaller and carries one third less VLS cells and half as many helicopters, then you're welcome to use the word "broadly" as much as you feel like. That doesn't mean I need to have any inclination to agree with you.

    I would have thought the differences are so plain to see that they are self-evident. Clearly for you they are not, and you seem to have taken my assumption as some kind of slight against Chinese naval shipbuilding or something of that nature. Seriously? I am not a "USN lover". I am, however, quite realistic, unlike MANY of the people on this forum, who aren't just PLA lovers, they are straight up PLA fanbois with little to no reason or common sense. Look, it doesn't take much more than Google to figure out the differences between an Arleigh Burke and a 052D. Making this comparison is about as dumb as comparing a European "frigate" to a Type 054A and saying they are "broadly" similar to each other in terms of capabilities. Ok sure whatever, they are "broadly" similar. o_O
     
  7. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    If it isn't broadly similar then it should be pretty simple and easy to pick a subsystem common to both these ship class and evaluate. That's all is required. If you think Chinese ships are inferior, do point out the area.
     
  8. Iron Man
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    Iron Man Major
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    Why should even have to resort to that? Did you not read the paragraph that I wrote in response to AndrewS just above my response to you, that you quoted in your response? This is what I mean when I compare an NFL QB to a high school QB. The former is larger and has significantly more weapons than the latter. This is not a fair comparison just because they are both called QBs/destroyers.
     
  9. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    aah.So it was simply because they had different tonnage. That seems to rest that then. Okey dokey. The two ships are not comparable because they have a size difference. Moving on.
     
  10. AndrewS
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    AndrewS Captain
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    I think the Cruiser and Frigate comparisons are comparable.

    For cruisers, we see an even greater cost difference with the Zumwalts - which are some 5x more than their Chinese counterparts. Remember that we're at the same point in the production cycle, where only a few of each design have been produced.

    Yes, the Zumwalts are bigger and technologically more advanced, but it makes no difference in terms of actual real-life capability.

    Type-55s will be operating in the Western Pacific close to homeports. So they don't need to be bigger, have a longer endurance or have larger weapons magazines.
    In comparison, the US Navy has to operate much further.

    And all the internal improvements don't make much difference in terms of actual capability in terms of weapons systems.

    I would say that in terms of actual capability, a Type-55 has more air defence and strike capability than a Zumwalt.

    ---

    As for the LCS, it barely has any air defence or strike capability.
    In comparison, Chinese Frigates are armed to the teeth AND are also bigger hulls.
    Yet somehow an LCS costs 4x as much as a Chinese Frigate.
     
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