Future Chinese Space Colonisation Projects
- Thread starter Quickie
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solarz
Brigadier
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
Ah, but that's only if you think of Venus in Earth terms. Instead, think of Venus as a gas planet with a solid core. The atmosphere of Venus is composed of dense CO2, and breathable air (21:79 O2/N2) is a lifting gas.
Instead of thinking about building bases on solid ground or even digging down, think about building floating cities. Venus has roughly the same gravity as Earth, and at around 50km above the surface, the environment is almost Earthlike: a pressure of 1 bar, and temperatures between 0C to 50C.
Venus has a bounty of solar energy, both from above and reflected from below. That solar energy can be harvested for electricty. Combined with the rich CO2 in Venus' atmosphere, we can also grow crops.
Venus is much too hot and has a very thick poisonous atmosphere.
Ah, but that's only if you think of Venus in Earth terms. Instead, think of Venus as a gas planet with a solid core. The atmosphere of Venus is composed of dense CO2, and breathable air (21:79 O2/N2) is a lifting gas.
Instead of thinking about building bases on solid ground or even digging down, think about building floating cities. Venus has roughly the same gravity as Earth, and at around 50km above the surface, the environment is almost Earthlike: a pressure of 1 bar, and temperatures between 0C to 50C.
Venus has a bounty of solar energy, both from above and reflected from below. That solar energy can be harvested for electricty. Combined with the rich CO2 in Venus' atmosphere, we can also grow crops.
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
I like your thinking Solarz. You are probably barking mad, but I still like your thinking.
I like your thinking Solarz. You are probably barking mad, but I still like your thinking.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
A very thick Poisonous SUPERHEATED atmosphere. 462 °C; 863 °F at the surface.
A very thick Poisonous SUPERHEATED atmosphere. 462 °C; 863 °F at the surface.
solarz
Brigadier
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
Read my post above, we don't need to get down on the Venusian surface to colonize it.
Think about it this way, would you be able to colonize the bottom of Earth's ocean? Think of Venus as an ocean planet with no land, except this ocean is made of CO2 instead of H2O.
Read my post above, we don't need to get down on the Venusian surface to colonize it.
Think about it this way, would you be able to colonize the bottom of Earth's ocean? Think of Venus as an ocean planet with no land, except this ocean is made of CO2 instead of H2O.
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
Not really. Shuttles don't grown on trees on the moon. Until you actually develop the industrial infrastructure on airless moon equal to that of one of the top 20 economies on earth, any shuttle you launch from the moon would have to be first mostly fabricated, assembled and fueled on earth. Then you have to expend fuel to lift it from the earth to the moon, expend more fuel to settle it down on the moon, and then expend still more energy launch it from the moon again. So until you develope the infrastructure to mine the raw materials and fuel, refine the alloys and plastics, fabricate the components, and assemble most of a shuttle on the moon, the moon won't be a spring board for anything.
Not really. Shuttles don't grown on trees on the moon. Until you actually develop the industrial infrastructure on airless moon equal to that of one of the top 20 economies on earth, any shuttle you launch from the moon would have to be first mostly fabricated, assembled and fueled on earth. Then you have to expend fuel to lift it from the earth to the moon, expend more fuel to settle it down on the moon, and then expend still more energy launch it from the moon again. So until you develope the infrastructure to mine the raw materials and fuel, refine the alloys and plastics, fabricate the components, and assemble most of a shuttle on the moon, the moon won't be a spring board for anything.
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
What is the point of colonizing a planet if you can't get down to where the indiginous resources is and use that resource to support your colonies?
You would have to spend all the energy to boost every kilogram of equipment, fuel, air into venus transfer orbit, then spend all the energy to brake in venetian orbit, some how survive venetian atmospheric entry, only to float there and geather solar power.
You can spend a lot less energy and geather nearly as much solar energy with large habitates in earth orbit.
What is the point of colonizing a planet if you can't get down to where the indiginous resources is and use that resource to support your colonies?
You would have to spend all the energy to boost every kilogram of equipment, fuel, air into venus transfer orbit, then spend all the energy to brake in venetian orbit, some how survive venetian atmospheric entry, only to float there and geather solar power.
You can spend a lot less energy and geather nearly as much solar energy with large habitates in earth orbit.
solarz
Brigadier
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
A moon base would serve more functions than just launching shuttles to Mars. It would also serve for scientific research and resource mining, so you will need regular supply trips from Earth. Those supply trips can bring prefabricated shuttle modules which can then be assembled on the moon.
Technology doesn't stay static, and you need to be able to plan for the future. Modular construction has already proven itself with China's skyscrapers, and as technology evolves, it will soon become viable for space-faring vessels. The moon base certainly does not need to refine its own raw materials.
The distance between Earth and Moon is only 384,400 km. The minimum distance between Earth and Mars is 54.6 million km, and between Earth and Venus is 38 million km. Venus is 100 times further from Earth than the Moon is, so if we can't make round-trips to the moon economically worthwhile, then Venus colonization would not be worthwhile either. Same thing goes for Mars, except it's even further.
So the logic is, if we're planning to colonize another planet, we might as well do it from the Moon, because if we can't even get that right, we shouldn't be aiming for another planet.
A moon base would serve more functions than just launching shuttles to Mars. It would also serve for scientific research and resource mining, so you will need regular supply trips from Earth. Those supply trips can bring prefabricated shuttle modules which can then be assembled on the moon.
Technology doesn't stay static, and you need to be able to plan for the future. Modular construction has already proven itself with China's skyscrapers, and as technology evolves, it will soon become viable for space-faring vessels. The moon base certainly does not need to refine its own raw materials.
The distance between Earth and Moon is only 384,400 km. The minimum distance between Earth and Mars is 54.6 million km, and between Earth and Venus is 38 million km. Venus is 100 times further from Earth than the Moon is, so if we can't make round-trips to the moon economically worthwhile, then Venus colonization would not be worthwhile either. Same thing goes for Mars, except it's even further.
So the logic is, if we're planning to colonize another planet, we might as well do it from the Moon, because if we can't even get that right, we shouldn't be aiming for another planet.
Quickie
Colonel
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
Admittedly, it's a very interesting idea. Still there are serious problem to deal with at the rarefied top of Venus's atmosphere.
Height
(km) Temp.
(°C) Atmospheric
pressure
(x Earth)
0 462 92.10
5 424 66.65
10 385 47.39
15 348 33.04
20 306 22.52
25 264 14.93
30 222 9.851
35 180 5.917
40 143 3.501
45 110 1.979
50 75 1.066
55 27 0.5314 (The best point here.)
At an altitude of 55km, the temp. is just nice at 27 degrees C but at half of earth's atmospheric pressure. The bigger problem is, at this altitude, sulphuric acid clouds and haze starts to appear.
Admittedly, it's a very interesting idea. Still there are serious problem to deal with at the rarefied top of Venus's atmosphere.
Height
(km) Temp.
(°C) Atmospheric
pressure
(x Earth)
0 462 92.10
5 424 66.65
10 385 47.39
15 348 33.04
20 306 22.52
25 264 14.93
30 222 9.851
35 180 5.917
40 143 3.501
45 110 1.979
50 75 1.066
55 27 0.5314 (The best point here.)
At an altitude of 55km, the temp. is just nice at 27 degrees C but at half of earth's atmospheric pressure. The bigger problem is, at this altitude, sulphuric acid clouds and haze starts to appear.
solarz
Brigadier
Re: China's Space Program, News & Views
What is the point of colonizing another planet at all? Is it solely to gather that planet's resources like a swarm of locust?
A Venusian colony can provide invaluable opportunities for scientific studies. If the colony can support itself just with the solar energy it gathers, that would be a phenomenal success already. Venusian atmosphere is also rich in sulfuric acid, which has numerous industrial applications. So if we ever come to a point were the Venus colonies need to export something, they can export sulfuric acid.
(BTW, "venetian" means from/of Venice.)
What is the point of colonizing another planet at all? Is it solely to gather that planet's resources like a swarm of locust?
A Venusian colony can provide invaluable opportunities for scientific studies. If the colony can support itself just with the solar energy it gathers, that would be a phenomenal success already. Venusian atmosphere is also rich in sulfuric acid, which has numerous industrial applications. So if we ever come to a point were the Venus colonies need to export something, they can export sulfuric acid.
(BTW, "venetian" means from/of Venice.)