French Military News Thread

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by DarkEminence, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. DarkEminence
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    DarkEminence New Member

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    As we probably all know, there are countless jokes about the French Military:
    All that aside, is there anything that you guys appreciate about the French?

    Leclarc? Submarines?

    Or, if you run out of things to appreciate, we can always hear your take on French jokes...

    Don't get me wrong. I believe the French are a strong and resilient people. Unfortunately, the jokes seem to detract from that.
     
    #1 DarkEminence, Jan 8, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2007
  2. Obi Wan Russell
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    Obi Wan Russell Jedi Master
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    Re: The Military of France

    I respect the fact that the French still have a sense of national pride and are prepared to stick up for their own industries, defence related or otherwise, but beyond that I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!
     
  3. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    Re: The Military of France

    The do operate a nuclear carrier with a very capable air wing. Despite severe birthing pains, that carrier is capable, credible, and will be all the more impresive when joined by the next French carrier.

    They also have an impressive military design and manufacturing industry across the board.

    Despite the jokes, I believe people respect the French military and its capabilities when it is deployed.
     
  4. Gollevainen
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    Gollevainen Colonel
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    Re: The Military of France

    Bashing french of their military performance in WWII is as tastless as bashing Poland or any other countries that were rolled over by Germans. At least french fought back unlike many others. The thing was that with outdated tactics and doctrines against the new and unheard Bliztkrieg, there really weren't anything to throw against it. Germans invaded hell lot of more land from the soviets than the size of france and only thing that stopped them was the unrealistic depth of the german plans to be able to conduct with mechanical force. But the general tactics used by the Germans were almoust unbeatable in the early days when germans had the change to determine where to fight and frankly if it would have been the british or americans or soviets in the place of french, they would have been beaten just the same.

    So can we drop these childish country bashing jokes?

    French military hardware is as good as anyone else making the same cathegory equipment. In fact it's quite remarkable how in certain areas France have managed to keep up the level of the two superpowers, USA and Russia/Soviet union. If you look simply the level of the technology and the wide slace of equipment made, france is definatly the number three in the whole world.
     
  5. BLUEJACKET
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    BLUEJACKET Banned Idiot

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    Re: The Military of France

    The French should be given their due, even though they lost battles (like everyone else) in the past!
    http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/defense.asp
     
    #5 BLUEJACKET, Jan 8, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2007
  6. lcortez
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    lcortez New Member

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    Re: The Military of France

    Totally agree,I think people should lay off the French,in fact if you actually do research you will find their military record is as good as any of the other major military powers. In terms of technology its right up there with all the others and ahead of a lot,a good example is the FELIN system (French landwarrior), which is regarded as the most mature of the future soldier systems and is already being deployed to the French infantry on a basis of 1:1(in various configs).
    I think a lot of the French bashing comes about because they dont blindly follow the US about and put their own interests first, dont see whats wrong with that and wish the UK would do it as well,that way we might win back some of the friends weve lost in recent years.:)
     
  7. The_Zergling
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    The_Zergling Junior Member

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    Re: The Military of France

    France's decision to withdraw from NATO was one definitely worthy of analysis. It goes without saying that in an ideal alliance, member states would not resent, question, or even notice control exercised over them by other members because they believe it appropriate in view of the collective interests of the alliance. When coordination turns into a relationship in which one or more members suspect that the alliance is simply being used by another member to enhance its own position at their expense (ex: Warsaw Pact), alliances are more likely to unravel. Of course, it doesn't always have to be that dramatic; alliance cohesiveness can be shaken under other less significant circumstances. Resentment among members can arise when an alliance is dominated by one particularly powerful state.

    Charles de Gaulle pulled France out of NATO in 1961 because he felt that it had become an instrument of American domination of Western Europe. Whether or not you believe so is another story, but when analyzing these issues it makes sens to start from the point of view of the affected party, and their given knowledge at the time. De Gaulle wanted France to be free of US control. Obviously, the US provided protection from the Soviet Union, and all the member states had this common interest. However, as far as de Gaulle was concerned the probability of such an attack from the Soviet Union was highly unlikely.

    In his calculations, the political costs to France for staying in NATO outweighed the benefits it got. What's more, he anticipated with some confidence that regardless of the NATO withdrawal, the alliance would continue to defend Western Europe from Soviet attack, and thus France would be able to gain security from NATO without bearing full political and economic costs of membership.

    By doing so, France was able to pursue a more independent foreign policy line. American foreign policy decisions under Eisenhower had twice left France facing military defeat unassisted by the US. These two examples were the Suez War against Egypt in 1956, and the French defeat in Dienbienphu Vietnam, 1954. In this instance, the Eisenhower administration had originally planned to back forces but later reneged on the commitment.

    France, which suffered 35000 killed and 48000 wounded in Indochina quite reasonably inferred that the US was not a reliable ally, at least outside of Europe. (So no bringing up the World Wars into this) After de Gaulle reflected on the unhappy military history with the US since the end of WWII, he concluded that the US was committed to using NATO for its own advantage. Thus he decided that France would be better off building its own nuclear force, strengthening the indigenous defense industry, and following its own defense policy.

    When examining France's military equipment and foreign policy it certainly pays to examine the historical and structural background, you can learn quite a bit from it.
     
  8. lcortez
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    lcortez New Member

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    Re: The Military of France

    Certainly sheds a bit of light on some of Frances procurement choices recently, in particular their decision to stay out of the Eurofighter project in favour of the Rafale,when France is one of the main driving forces behind
    the push for a common defence fo Europe.
     
  9. Scratch
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    Re: The Military of France

    Well, just to clarify (and not sure if you're aware of it lcortez). France didn't actually stay out of the EF project but left it in a very early stage, I think in 1985(?). Back then the participating nations couldn't reach an agreement over the specs. France wanted a rather light fighter capable of carrier operations (for obvious reasons), while the UK/Germany favoured a bit heavier jet. Another point was the workshare. Because of it's longstanding history of indigenous defence industry, France wanted Dassault to get the main workload to do, wich the other partners wouldn't agree with. So finally France left. That's one reason why the Rafale and EF are so similar.
    And it was not a bad move from nows perspective. The Rafale is capable, and it's in service for seven years now I think, while EF just gets operational. With several countries involved there are nearly alays delays due to political arguments. Finally, EF is probably a slightly better aircraft.
    These experiances of France with NATO that Zergling described, and the following pull out, may be seen as an importand factor for the french decission to have a self reliable defence industry. Wich in turn leads to some reluctance to collaborate in international projects.
    Up until now they were rather successfull with it.
     
  10. lcortez
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    lcortez New Member

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    Re: The Military of France

    Wasnt aware of the earlier French participation in the Eurofighter project,thanks for the info.However I was in no way critizing the French involvement in European defence, in fact I often find myself defending the French when I hear complaints that they 'dont do anything'!
    In fact I am quite a big fan of the French and am well aware of their contibutions towards European defence (maybe not on a technical level),and though their proposals for a homogenous EU military ,and their desire for EU to be more independant of US (but not against) very desirable.
    Would totally agree French foreign policy very succesfull.:)
     
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