France Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by navyreco, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    The ammo racks plural are located in the hull forward left side and turret left side bristle. Not the side side.
    As to the FCS again which version the latest or the older versions used by the Turks and for the record the Leclerc has a much lower turret weight and armor so the suspension is inferior in terms of weight capacity compared to the leopard 2. That's why the makers joint venture included a Leopard 2 hull with a Leclerc turret.
    It helps if you actually use the tank correctly and support it with infantry. Also armor kits can be assembled by other makers or negotiated. To date the Saudies don't seem to be ingesting in such.
    Reducing the number of fighters in the carrier air wing. In a already fairly small modern nuclear carrier.
    Meaning that every time the CVN has to get a repair or overhaul the French Navy looses all carrier capabilities. The aim of the joint French English program was to allow at a affordable price carriers for the two partners. The single carrier deck limits ther ability to respond to emergency by putting all there eggs in one basket.
    No, the Chinese have not been confirmed as building EMALS into there decks.
    The method of take off and landing of the S/VTOL Queen Elizabeth class is vastly different from that used by the Russian / Chinese carriers the lift system buys extra payload vs that of the Russian system and saves on ship building and electrical drain.
     
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  2. Jura
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    Jura Lieutenant General

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    while now
    Mattis says US-France in talks about loosening export limits on cruise missile https://www.defensenews.com/global/...of-us-export-limits-on-french-cruise-missile/
     
  3. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    The CDG carrier can carry up to 35 Rafale fighters. The Liaoning carrier can carry 26 J-15 fighters. QE-class carriers can carry up to 36 F-35Bs. I do not consider that the fact that the Rafale does not have folding wings to so strongly impair the number of aircraft on their "small" carrier. Also, since the CDG does have a catapult, those Rafale fighters will have much more maximum takeoff weight than either the F-35Bs in the QE or the J-15s in the Liaoning. This means those Rafales will have more weapons payload and more fuel. The problem is the French only have one carrier, that is all, this means it has a poor parts supply and it leads to other issues like downtime. Other than that I consider the CDG to be one of the best designs currently in service. Other than the Nimitz and Ford class it is the only nuclear-powered CATOBAR carrier in service in the world today.

    The Leclerc has an hydropneumatic suspension. The Leopard 2 has just a plain torsion bar suspension. The Leclerc's is at least one generation better. Only tank with a better suspension would be the Korean K2. Even the T-14 Armata has a suspension better than plain torsion bar. Because the suspension is better the tank has better accuracy while firing on the move and more gun depression in a hull down position. Just like I said. The only advantage the Leopard 2 has is that it was built in more numbers and it is cheaper. The Leopard 2 also was designed over a decade before the Leclerc and it shows. When you consider technologies that have been developed after both those tanks, like CVT transmissions, there is a still lot of room for improvement tough. Ever seen the Japanese Type 10 tank? Because of the CVT it can drive as fast backwards as forward and it's a lot easier to drive it too.

    Also you are wrong. The other ammo rack in the Leopard 2 is in the hull, only one ammo rack is in the turret.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    The Germans are such cheapstakes the new joint tank design will probably be really crappy to keep production costs down.

    The project of the joint Franco-German large twin-jet UCAV also seems like an abortion to me. UCAVs are supposed to be cheaper than fighters. Not the other way around. In practice UCAVs have more crashes and they decide to make the most expensive one they can. It's like the Germans did not learn squat after their Euro Hawk fiasco. UCAVs also have several issues like the possibility of jamming or even worse to be hijacked. When I heard of that project, I just thought it was so stupid, I could not believe it.

    The English proposal to replace the Tornado seems to make a lot more sense to me as a project. There is an issue that it might flounder because of Brexit but it is a shame if that happens really. None of the NATO countries will have a deep strike fighter bomber once the Tornado and F-15E are retired otherwise.
     
  4. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    So if you penetrate a Leopard 2 on its left side, just below the turret's front, BOOM!
    Then the turret flies off. The side armor has AFAIK 50mm RHA equivalent plus a side skirt. So it is really thin for an MBT.

    I learned that the hard way when playing Armored Warfare.

    Unless you have one of the armor upgrade kits with side armor you better not store any ammo there. Even if you do that, someone can easily kill or injure the tank's driver by striking that position. Of course, the German Army does not have those side armor kits on their tanks. Because it's expensive and Germans are cheap.
     
    #1604 gelgoog, Oct 4, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  5. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    No I am right the Leopard 2 turret rack is not just on the side it's left side brustle even your display backs that....
    Wait you are using a video game as refrence???
     
  6. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    I misread what you typed. But anyway, you can penetrate it by hitting the thin side armor and you'll hit the ammo rack in the hull. I've seen footage of Leopard 2 tanks with their turrets blown off in Syria which had been hit on the left side. So in those cases it was clearly a detonation of that ammo rack.

    People joke about the T-72 carousel autoloader making that tank family vulnerable and this is a similar issue.
     
  7. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Again Turkish Leopard 2A4 not the latest versions which are basically a totally different tank.

    The Carousel will pop not just from the tank getting penetrated but even a overheat of the autoloader. The thing you have to consider though is although the ammo may cook off can the crew bail out or not? You state
    Video games don't let the crew jump out and have vastly different rules than reality. Reality comes in here because the question for a tank on a failure is did the crew survive or were they killed?
    T72 cook offs tend not to leave survivors.
     
  8. timepass
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    timepass Brigadier

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  9. timepass
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  10. Jura
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    Jura Lieutenant General

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    google translated last paragraph of
    FTI : accélération de la production ? Décalage(s) ? https://lefauteuildecolbert.blogspot.com/2018/10/fti-acceleration-de-la-production.html
    sounds kinda damning for [email protected]
    :
    "This is why the industrial layout of the FTI program with a possible Greek order for four units, two of which were put on hold in France, would help to respect the financial envelope, or even optimize the expenditure to the point of going back to choices such as the limitation to 16 ports or the absence of jammers, decoy launchers. It would not be surprising either that the entire FTI program was calculated on a financial level with the most likely supplement of two Greek units: the Navy would have brought the five frigates in the allocated envelope, even leaving some equipment for do not have to reduce other dedicated envelopes including those intrinsic qualities of the platform. This equipment set aside would then return with the Greek order to reduce the initial bill to the point of entering the equipment in the envelope, without ever exceeding. This is a hypothesis to dig."

    now this paragraph is interesting:
    "Moreover, the editor of this note remains attentive to the delivery to Greece and anti-aircraft missiles Aster 30 and Naval Cruise Missiles (MdCN). Athens had sought Kidd class destroyers with SM-2 MRs but Washington refused in the name of regional stability. Refusal raised when Paris could propose his modified Aquitaine class FREMM with Aster 30 (range of 100 km). This is to provide for the security needs of a state. This confirms that the MdCN, in the first place, remains one of the cardinal points of the need as expressed by the Greeks and as perceived by the citizens of their state. FTIs must carry two Sylver A50 launchers (Aster 15 and 30). It would be question for Greece to see pierce the beach before two launchers Sylver A70, always on the beach before."
     
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