I decided to save this one from the old forum, basicly couse in the past i have noticed that sometimes discussions involving me tends to turn into my home country and its armedforces. In this new forum, however, the moderating policy is more strict one so that kind of offtipic leaps arent allowed anylonger so something else has to be done...so basicly now, when you realise that there is a hole in your military knowlidge about size of Finland, come here and read...and learn...
oh, and this one rootes from the 'world armed forces tour' from the old forum, and I see no reason for not to continue it in here. So if anyone else of our new (and old) members wants to introduce their (non chinese, US or russian) armed forces in this forum, it will be more than welcome. Thougth keep this one as a 'standard', and dont make worser, few paragrahp posts containing some commonly known facts.
So here we go...
Finland gain its independence in late 1917 in aftermath of Russian october revolution. Soon after, the political rift between 'whites' or rigth-wing and 'reds', the working class flamed into full length war. The Whites eventually gained upperhand and whit little help from germany they ended the civil war in bloodly manner and tens of thousands of reds were massacared. Along whit actual german troops came also some six thousand 'jaegers' or voluntary finns serving in imperial german army. Those and the white officers formed the back bone of the Finlands first rebuplics army in 20's and 30's.
Well not interfeiring anymore to finnish domestic politics, the WWII came whit Soviet occupation attempt in december 1939. Miraculously we won even when odds against us were even worser than Taiwan has against PRC. As example we had less than twenty modern Vickers tank against over 2000 soviet similar models (T-26). In 1940 after 104 days the Soviets presented a ceasfire which Finnish government could accept but we lost major areas of our eastern border. So it wasent difficoult to anticipate that we joined up whit Hitlers crusade against Bolsevism and everybody knows how it ended so I am not briefing it here. But it has to be said that when Soviets tryed to end the Finnish front in summer 1944 along whit the bigger Normandian landings, the 'Winter war' was fougth as a rematch whit similar results and the figthings in Karelia isthmus were one of the biggest in whole WWII and certainly biggest in Fenno-Scandia. They where also only time since 1943 when allied offensive where stopped. Afterwards the Government agreeded again in ceasfire and the 1940 borders were back in line and the end of the 'first rebuplic' was evident. We fougth brief war to drive Nazis out of our Lapland and in 1945 we had free elections, first of its kind in among post war axis allyes
So remembering that every generation prior to independence had fougth against Russians also, we have quite strong military heritage and there is little question about who the enemy really is. During the cold war we remaided neutral whit good ties to both east and west and it reflected to our army also. The 1947 Paris peace treaty to lesser germans allyes imposed srtick reductions to our armed forces and eq missiles and submarines were banned (the missile ban was lifted along whit the 1962 acustion of MiG-21Fs, first non-warsaw pact export sale of that type!)
But enough history and to the point...
The Finnish defence forces are quite small in peace time, some 30,000 in active service and most of them are conscripts. The conscription system, where over 80% of young mens serve in armed military is pretty unique in todays europe and has been the back bone of our military always...Its also popularily supported and no serious statements have been made in our political life to change it to 'mercenary' corps...Every one serves at least 180 days and those who are trained officers and NCOs do 180 more and act as auxiliary trainers to the next patch of new conscripts. After some five to ten years most are called into annual refferesment trainings...(I havent been yet
)
The Finnish defence forces are organized in peacetime under three MDs (MPAs); Wester, eastern and northern. Under their command are all active units and military regions (SL) which are responsible of creating wartime units...
Ground Forces
The Finnish Order of Battle includes:
6 ligth infnatry training brigades (named: Karelian's, Jaeger, Kainuun's, North-Karelian's, Pori's and Savo's Brigades)
1 ligth training Armoured brigade
1 artillery brigade
3 infantry regiments (including the airborne regiment)
2 airdefence regiments
1 engineer and 1 singal regiment
plus few schools...
Three brigades (one in each MPA) are descriped as rapid-reaction units, but they are still in trainign formation...
The brigades are not in wartime strength and are more as 'training centers' than field formations whit more or less 1,000-3,000 personel. E.q the Karelian brigade, where the author served, had one motorised infantry (called Jaegers) battalion, one artillery regiment, engineer battalion, anti aircraft battalion, supply battalion and singal battalion. I was in the artillery regiment which had three batteryes and one battery size NCO school. In realistic field trainings, our regiment could make up a undersized artillery battalion and mortar company for the sole infantry battalion.
But in wartime, those brigades would have four 740 men strong infantry battalions and artillery regiment whit two battalions whit some 6,000 men strength. The sole amoured brigade is to be disbanned as a wartime unit and the future amoured units would be disperred between the infantry and motorised infantry brigades during the wartime. The total wartime strength would be some 20 brigades and numerious independent battalions and companyes. The defence doctrine calls for the whole nation to be defended under the 'area-defence'doctrine where the huge size and low people per sq km rate would be taken advantage. The idea is let the enemy deep inside to our terretory and when the suplly lines are becoming too long to be defended easily, our 'gurellia' infantry would attack the enemy unit and trying to surround it and isolate from rest of the enemy. The term gurellia is universally used in our army and in general language as well to descripe the ligth infantry so its kinda strange to read foreing articles using the gurellia word when speaking of insurgents...
Air Forces
After the WWII finnish airforces strength was ordered to be less than 60 combat planes and no missiles and bombers. The missiles were aquired but the bombers were left out and somehow the modern groundattakcers where aslo described as 'bombers' and none saw service in Finnish airforce. Currently the 60 combat planes are still being maitaned in form of 57 F-18 Hornets and some 50 BAe Hawks, which are trainers not combat planes :rolleyes ... They are shared whit three airdefence squardons and airwarfare school. there are also support squardon whic flies whit few Learjets and Fokker F-27s but the main dissavantage of our airforce is lack of transporters and EW planes. There where some 8 Mi-8 Hips previously flown by the airforce but they were tranferred into Ground Forces and are being replaced by some 20 NH-90s. the airdefence is also under Ground forces and the core of it are the Buk-M1 (SA-11 Gadfly) SAM systems
Navy
Finnish navy havent got any 'ships' bigger than minelayers, but there isent any need for them, as there havent been strong urge to go and 'spread' anything to distant nations by the behalv of the finnish government. The 10 Missile fACs armed whit RBS-15 SSMs are the main force supported by some smaller patrol crafts and three minelayers; the biggest one, Pohjanmaa is also the flagship and cadet training ship. There are single infantry brigade under Naval organisation, the Nylands brigade which has traditionally been the service place for swedish speaking finns. There are few LCUs but they are more of mobile coastal defence force rather than any 'marines'. The coastal defence have also lots of fortessed 100mm and 130mm coastal guns and truck mounted RBS-15 missiles. The Paris peace treaty prohipited submarines and placed 10,000tns limit to our navy. Hardly the tonnage limit was to been achieved but the banning of subs have serioulsy limited navys offensive capapilityes. During the WWII, the finnish subs along whit the extensive mining of Finnsih Gulf made the Soviet KBF (Krasnozamnyee Baltiskii Flot) surrounded in Kronstad. Althought the Paris treaty no longer plyes, the budget straings have effectively stilled all submarine plans...
oh, and this one rootes from the 'world armed forces tour' from the old forum, and I see no reason for not to continue it in here. So if anyone else of our new (and old) members wants to introduce their (non chinese, US or russian) armed forces in this forum, it will be more than welcome. Thougth keep this one as a 'standard', and dont make worser, few paragrahp posts containing some commonly known facts.
So here we go...
Finland gain its independence in late 1917 in aftermath of Russian october revolution. Soon after, the political rift between 'whites' or rigth-wing and 'reds', the working class flamed into full length war. The Whites eventually gained upperhand and whit little help from germany they ended the civil war in bloodly manner and tens of thousands of reds were massacared. Along whit actual german troops came also some six thousand 'jaegers' or voluntary finns serving in imperial german army. Those and the white officers formed the back bone of the Finlands first rebuplics army in 20's and 30's.
Well not interfeiring anymore to finnish domestic politics, the WWII came whit Soviet occupation attempt in december 1939. Miraculously we won even when odds against us were even worser than Taiwan has against PRC. As example we had less than twenty modern Vickers tank against over 2000 soviet similar models (T-26). In 1940 after 104 days the Soviets presented a ceasfire which Finnish government could accept but we lost major areas of our eastern border. So it wasent difficoult to anticipate that we joined up whit Hitlers crusade against Bolsevism and everybody knows how it ended so I am not briefing it here. But it has to be said that when Soviets tryed to end the Finnish front in summer 1944 along whit the bigger Normandian landings, the 'Winter war' was fougth as a rematch whit similar results and the figthings in Karelia isthmus were one of the biggest in whole WWII and certainly biggest in Fenno-Scandia. They where also only time since 1943 when allied offensive where stopped. Afterwards the Government agreeded again in ceasfire and the 1940 borders were back in line and the end of the 'first rebuplic' was evident. We fougth brief war to drive Nazis out of our Lapland and in 1945 we had free elections, first of its kind in among post war axis allyes
So remembering that every generation prior to independence had fougth against Russians also, we have quite strong military heritage and there is little question about who the enemy really is. During the cold war we remaided neutral whit good ties to both east and west and it reflected to our army also. The 1947 Paris peace treaty to lesser germans allyes imposed srtick reductions to our armed forces and eq missiles and submarines were banned (the missile ban was lifted along whit the 1962 acustion of MiG-21Fs, first non-warsaw pact export sale of that type!)
But enough history and to the point...
The Finnish defence forces are quite small in peace time, some 30,000 in active service and most of them are conscripts. The conscription system, where over 80% of young mens serve in armed military is pretty unique in todays europe and has been the back bone of our military always...Its also popularily supported and no serious statements have been made in our political life to change it to 'mercenary' corps...Every one serves at least 180 days and those who are trained officers and NCOs do 180 more and act as auxiliary trainers to the next patch of new conscripts. After some five to ten years most are called into annual refferesment trainings...(I havent been yet
) The Finnish defence forces are organized in peacetime under three MDs (MPAs); Wester, eastern and northern. Under their command are all active units and military regions (SL) which are responsible of creating wartime units...
Ground Forces
The Finnish Order of Battle includes:
6 ligth infnatry training brigades (named: Karelian's, Jaeger, Kainuun's, North-Karelian's, Pori's and Savo's Brigades)
1 ligth training Armoured brigade
1 artillery brigade
3 infantry regiments (including the airborne regiment)
2 airdefence regiments
1 engineer and 1 singal regiment
plus few schools...
Three brigades (one in each MPA) are descriped as rapid-reaction units, but they are still in trainign formation...
The brigades are not in wartime strength and are more as 'training centers' than field formations whit more or less 1,000-3,000 personel. E.q the Karelian brigade, where the author served, had one motorised infantry (called Jaegers) battalion, one artillery regiment, engineer battalion, anti aircraft battalion, supply battalion and singal battalion. I was in the artillery regiment which had three batteryes and one battery size NCO school. In realistic field trainings, our regiment could make up a undersized artillery battalion and mortar company for the sole infantry battalion.
But in wartime, those brigades would have four 740 men strong infantry battalions and artillery regiment whit two battalions whit some 6,000 men strength. The sole amoured brigade is to be disbanned as a wartime unit and the future amoured units would be disperred between the infantry and motorised infantry brigades during the wartime. The total wartime strength would be some 20 brigades and numerious independent battalions and companyes. The defence doctrine calls for the whole nation to be defended under the 'area-defence'doctrine where the huge size and low people per sq km rate would be taken advantage. The idea is let the enemy deep inside to our terretory and when the suplly lines are becoming too long to be defended easily, our 'gurellia' infantry would attack the enemy unit and trying to surround it and isolate from rest of the enemy. The term gurellia is universally used in our army and in general language as well to descripe the ligth infantry so its kinda strange to read foreing articles using the gurellia word when speaking of insurgents...
Air Forces
After the WWII finnish airforces strength was ordered to be less than 60 combat planes and no missiles and bombers. The missiles were aquired but the bombers were left out and somehow the modern groundattakcers where aslo described as 'bombers' and none saw service in Finnish airforce. Currently the 60 combat planes are still being maitaned in form of 57 F-18 Hornets and some 50 BAe Hawks, which are trainers not combat planes :rolleyes ... They are shared whit three airdefence squardons and airwarfare school. there are also support squardon whic flies whit few Learjets and Fokker F-27s but the main dissavantage of our airforce is lack of transporters and EW planes. There where some 8 Mi-8 Hips previously flown by the airforce but they were tranferred into Ground Forces and are being replaced by some 20 NH-90s. the airdefence is also under Ground forces and the core of it are the Buk-M1 (SA-11 Gadfly) SAM systems
Navy
Finnish navy havent got any 'ships' bigger than minelayers, but there isent any need for them, as there havent been strong urge to go and 'spread' anything to distant nations by the behalv of the finnish government. The 10 Missile fACs armed whit RBS-15 SSMs are the main force supported by some smaller patrol crafts and three minelayers; the biggest one, Pohjanmaa is also the flagship and cadet training ship. There are single infantry brigade under Naval organisation, the Nylands brigade which has traditionally been the service place for swedish speaking finns. There are few LCUs but they are more of mobile coastal defence force rather than any 'marines'. The coastal defence have also lots of fortessed 100mm and 130mm coastal guns and truck mounted RBS-15 missiles. The Paris peace treaty prohipited submarines and placed 10,000tns limit to our navy. Hardly the tonnage limit was to been achieved but the banning of subs have serioulsy limited navys offensive capapilityes. During the WWII, the finnish subs along whit the extensive mining of Finnsih Gulf made the Soviet KBF (Krasnozamnyee Baltiskii Flot) surrounded in Kronstad. Althought the Paris treaty no longer plyes, the budget straings have effectively stilled all submarine plans...
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