Feasibility of a cheap air defence arsenal ship

Skorzeny

Junior Member
Would it be feasible to convert a modern merchant ship or a resupply vessel into a cheap air defence arsenal ship?

The US tried to develop the concept for carrying a large number of LACMs, however the vessels became rather complicated and expensive.
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If you on the other hand would make a very cheap AD version based on the NETFIRES principle, where you put automated, sealed VLS blocks in a merchant vessel, it might be a practical force multiplier. All guidance would be by off board sensors. An escort like a FFG54 would start an engagement by first firing the AD missiles in the arsenal ship by computer link and then guiding them. They would do this because the cheap arsenal ship would have less survivability. On the other hand it would have a very limited crew since the VLS system would be autonomous and sealed. Maybe a crew of 20 like a normal merchant ship.

NETFIRES puts sealed fire support VLS on any platform. It should be possible to adapt a system like this to AD
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My opinion is that this would be an easy and cheap way to improve the defence of a carrier group. You wouldn`t need large combatants to get a decent number of missiles. On the other hand, survivability is probably the main problem.
 

Johnstauffer

Just Hatched
Registered Member
While you could install a substantial number of weapons in a merchant hull, the speed performance would leave something to be desired.
Even the faster civilian merchant hulls would have a hard time maintaining the speeds required of fleet operations.
Granted most forces travel at 20 knots or or, but in critical situations or when needed to move from location to location 30+ knots would be needed.
 

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
I think fast multi-hull ferries would offer the best solution, but I don't necessarily agree that an Air-Defence version is the best idea because it would lack independant operation (reliant on escorts and network).

But I think specialised land-attack "arsenal ships" are a natural progression and we are seeing this theme, though nothing like the USN's previous ideas.
 

Skorzeny

Junior Member
My idea wasn`t for the vessel to be able to act independantly, because that would require armour and sensors,and then it would be just another expensive large combatant. More like a "storage" for extra, long range SAMs for carrier escorts. Then you wouldn`t have to build AAW cruisers, but just add one to a carrier group and use existing destroyers to greater effect.
 

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Taking the USN's excellent Mk41 as an example, you could fit them to supply ships, LPDs etc. The Mk 41 could carry a mix of ESSM, LACMs, Harpoons and Standard SM-3/4. The ship itself would only have fire control for the ESSMs and maybe a limited Harpoon capability, but via datalink allow other warships to control the LACMs and Standards.

Not sure if the current PLAN missile arsenal suits this idea but in concept it sounds like a good force multiplier.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Would it be feasible to convert a modern merchant ship or a resupply vessel into a cheap air defence arsenal ship?

This depends on the scope of the air-defense systems. If we're talking about mounting a relatively small and lightweight system, such as Phalanx CIWS or even the Israeli Barak VL SAM system, I think it shouldn't be too difficult. But these would only be useful for point-defense and cannot offer true fleet air-defense.

To refit a merchant ship with long-range SAM and its radar/control systems would be a major task.

A while back there were a lot of speculations on PRC companies like COSCO utilizing its mechant ships for war. The claims were... off in the realm of sillyness. Artillery, MLRS, land-attack missiles, etc. You can read about it here:
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=======================

During the Falklands War, the RN deployed some merchant ships to ferry Harrier aircraft and helicopters:
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The SS Atlantic Convoyer was converted into a temporary aircraft carrier. But being a merchant ship, it lacked the defensive systems and damage control of a real warship. In the end, those cargo containers stacked on the side only offered protection against the wind and... once struck, the ship was turned into a burning hulk.
 

Skorzeny

Junior Member
This depends on the scope of the air-defense systems. If we're talking about mounting a relatively small and lightweight system, such as Phalanx CIWS or even the Israeli Barak VL SAM system, I think it shouldn't be too difficult. But these would only be useful for point-defense and cannot offer true fleet air-defense.

To refit a merchant ship with long-range SAM and its radar/control systems would be a major task.

My point was not to turn it into an autonomous air defence ship. Just the missiles in sealed off VLS cells. The guidance would be done by other vessels in the task force. All by data link. This would be a quick fix for the very limited number off missiles on chinese escort ships. For a future carrier group maybe.
 

SinoForce

New Member
My point was not to turn it into an autonomous air defence ship. Just the missiles in sealed off VLS cells. The guidance would be done by other vessels in the task force. All by data link. This would be a quick fix for the very limited number off missiles on chinese escort ships. For a future carrier group maybe.
That's feasible. I'm surprised that navies haven't used towed missile barges, yet. You get a warship for deployment for an extra-hot mission, you just hook up the extra payload to the back and connect the cables. You tow it where you want to go and fire when ready.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
That's feasible. I'm surprised that navies haven't used towed missile barges, yet. You get a warship for deployment for an extra-hot mission, you just hook up the extra payload to the back and connect the cables. You tow it where you want to go and fire when ready.

That was done(Rocket barges) in WWII by the allies in the D-Day invasion of Normady and throughout the Pacific. I can't find a good link about this but it did happen.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
That was done(Rocket barges) in WWII by the allies in the D-Day invasion of Normady and throughout the Pacific. I can't find a good link about this but it did happen.

Apparently, the concept worked pretty well, the only problem was reloading; the small crews associated with the rocket barges were a hindrance when it can to reloading the rockets, and often, the barges will pull along side a cruiser to take advantage of the cruiser's large crew complement to help reload the barges.
 
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