Falklands War, 1982, Thread

Discussion in 'Military History' started by PanAsian, Feb 10, 2013.

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  1. b787
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    b787 Senior Member

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    you are saying things without logic, you are saying your politicians were liars, the 200 mile TEZ was no true, it was not like that, in wars there are basic rules

    The British, not only lied about the exclusion zone but also about the justification, since the Belgrano was not a threat to any British ship when it was sunk, so you whole argument show british double standards

     
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  2. b787
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    b787 Senior Member

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    your whole statement shows you do not understand what was the OAS, if you read the newspaper fragment of the Vulcan they mention the OAS and Article 7 of the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Protection (ITRA) in it Brazil did what the USA did not do, Brazil kept the Vulcan for a while due to a request from Argentina citing article 7 of ITRA, Brazil even kept the Shrike.

    The USA by providing military aid, was not even Neutral, but basically siding militarily with England and in Breach with Article 7th.

    If you read this newspaper fragment in Portuguese, you understand Brazil fulfilled its OAS obligations but the USA did not

    [​IMG]

    This will be paid by the USA, since later, leftistsGovernments in South America, will side with Brazil in MERCOSUR, Argentina and Brazil will start a new era of trust, in fact after 1982 Argentina considers Brazil an ally and not a threat.
     
  3. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    B787, you are forgetting the US UK special relationship, Where in military technologies, bases and intelligence have been shared since the second world war.
    Furthermore you are giving Brazil to much credit, historical precedent. In the second world war American B29's making strikes on the Japanese in China and Japan were forced to divert to Russia. Russia was not yet in the war against Japan so they to impounded B29's and housed there crews under identical conditions. IE Brazil said Because we are not siding with you we will just sit on your plane and pilots until the end of hostilities or decide to send them home, And in fact the Jet and crew were sent home early as they were released on June 11th the conflict ended June 14th. Although the British were miffed about the 1 remaining Shrike missile the Jet had launched with 4, fired 2 jettisoned one, That Shrike was likely malfunctioning as it could not be dropped.
    And similar incidents throughout the History of Naval warfare where in uncommitted nations Impounded for a period combatant ships housed there crews impounded war arms and returned them on there way asking that they not return to the conflict.
    Basically Brazil was playing Neutral.
     
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  4. b787
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    b787 Senior Member

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    Terran

    The USA is and was a independent nation, as a nation the USA is free to do what they please in terms of their foreign policies.
    My point was the USA signed a treaty, that treaty was based upon an inter American states agreement.
    The USA did not fill its part, at least not from the point of view of most Latin American nations.
    In the context of the Malvinas/Falklands war, Argentina considered it a treason, and so many other South American nations.

    I am not giving too much credit, Brazil gained a lot from the war, its reputation grew to a defender and leader in South America, Argentina ceased any hostile policy towards its new ally, (remember there was a nuclear race between both nations in the 1970s)

    The War also influenced Latin American leaders to say the OAS was a waste of time and Latin America needed an organization like UNASUR.

    You believe it or not the USA lost a lot by siding with England, since the Falkland/Malvinas issue has never being resolved not at least from a legal UN point of view.

    Any way the USSR declared war at Japan, so the USSR was not exactly neutral
     
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  5. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Except that the US was not bound by one Treaty it was bound by 2 or more on each side.
    The US had the OAS treaties but it also has a Bilateral Defence pact and NATO pacts with the UK.
    IE Argentina has a pact through the OAS And Attacked the UK in hopes that the US would side with it.
    The UK has a Pact with the US and was attacked by Argentina and hoped that the US would side with it.

    The US was placed in a position of which treaty to honor. Had the Us honored the OSA treaty the US may have lost the UK as an Allie and could have resulted in a BREXIT from NATO.
    The US chose to honor the UK obligations as in this case they had the stronger claim of being attacked, IE the smaller number of Royal marines on an Island with no indications of hostile intent to the Argentines was assaulted by an Argentine force.
     
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  6. b787
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    b787 Senior Member

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    I understand your point, however see that Brazil capitalized upon the USA mistake, the USA took sides, and this meant loses, the main mistake was the USA lost South America.

    La nacion, Argentine newspaper from 1982, shows the Belgrano sinking and a article about a Pucara that attacked the Hermes
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Same newspaper but this article about the sinking of the
    Sheffield
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Obi Wan Russell
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    Obi Wan Russell Jedi Master

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    #197 Obi Wan Russell, Jan 10, 2017
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  8. b787
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    b787 Senior Member

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    the Captain Hector Bonzo is not a lawer in international law, you have to prove your point upon international law, without it you are not proving anything, under international law, the Belgrano did not represent a threat, and you are in contradiction if your politicians say 'exclusion zone' and your captain does not obey means he is a rogue captain, your contradictions are funny, wishywashy, of course he followed orders from London, he did sink it upon orders, it was a political kill, you might try to convince me, but most Latin american will tell you it was not a military target, but a political one


    Newspaper page from 1982 from Argentina saying we downed 2 British Helicopters and 2 aircraft
    [​IMG]
     
  9. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    She was armed, She was a Naval warship. She was a Military target.
     
  10. Obi Wan Russell
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    Obi Wan Russell Jedi Master

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    Argentine press reports from 82 showing an attack on the Hermes, with lasers by the look of it!
    14462951_10211146701003940_5945486106906997668_n.jpg
    And here's the best available Argentine proof that they attacked the Invincible... invincibleburning.jpg
    ...And here's the original RN publicity shot they doctored to produce that evidence: invinciblereplicashot.jpg
    All of which goes to show why I place little weight on anything the newspapers have to say as a general rule.
     
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