F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The United States Air Force will use its F-35A fifth-generation fighters to mimic the role of its Chinese counterpart, the J-20 “Powerful Dragon”, in “aggressor” training exercises amid rising concern in Washington about Beijing’s growing strength in strategically sensitive areas such as the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait.

Aggressor exercises are drills that seek to mimic the tactics and techniques of other forces to give its pilots the most realistic possible experience of high-level conflict.

A total of 11 F-35A Lightning II stealth fighters will be transferred to the recently reactivated 65th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, where they will play the role of the J-20, according to a report by Military.com, a US forces news site.

“The F-22 [Raptor] guys are hungry to get at a fifth-generation adversary like a J-20,” a US fighter pilot told the website.

“The problem is, no squadron can replicate it unless you have dedicated fighter [squadrons like the F-35 or F-22] acting as adversary air.”

The United States Air Force will use its F-35A fifth-generation fighters to mimic the role of its Chinese counterpart, the J-20 “Powerful Dragon”, in “aggressor” training exercises amid rising concern in Washington about Beijing’s growing strength in strategically sensitive areas such as the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait.

Aggressor exercises are drills that seek to mimic the tactics and techniques of other forces to give its pilots the most realistic possible experience of high-level conflict.

A total of 11 F-35A Lightning II stealth fighters will be transferred to the recently reactivated 65th Aggressor Squadron at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, where they will play the role of the J-20, according to a report by Military.com, a US forces news site.

“The F-22 [Raptor] guys are hungry to get at a fifth-generation adversary like a J-20,” a US fighter pilot told the website.

“The problem is, no squadron can replicate it unless you have dedicated fighter [squadrons like the F-35 or F-22] acting as adversary air.”


The 65th Aggressor Squadron was reactivated last month after being stood down in 2014 due to budget constraints.

In an official statement, Chris Sukach, a spokesman for Nellis Air Force Base, said the decision was part of a larger initiative to “improve training for fifth-generation fighter aircraft”, adding that a total of 11 F-35As would be transferred to the base to play the role of enemy warplanes.

“This added capability will enhance the already robust adversary replication provided to US and partner nation air forces through multiple training and exercise scenarios,” Sukach said.

Experts noted that the decision to use the F-35A to simulate the J-20 underscored growing American concerns about China’s military modernisation programme and its expanded operational strength.

Zhang Baohui, director of the Centre for Asian Pacific Studies at Lingnan University in Hong Kong, said: “The F-35 and J-20 are comparable fighter jets and it is no surprise that the US would use the F-35 to simulate the J-20 for training purposes.”

Zhang noted that fifth-generation fighter jets were considered a “game changer” in modern warfare, adding:“The US F-22 and F-35, China’s J-20, and Russia’s Su-57 are the only fifth-generation fighters in existence. This implies that the US has to treat the J-20 seriously.”

“Great powers all regularly train their militaries for scenarios that involve each others’ militaries … They [the US] just want to be prepared for the worst-case scenarios,” he added.

In a report released earlier this year, the US Congress warned that the J-20 could pose a serious threat to the US military.

The J-20 features “high manoeuvrability, stealth characteristics and an internal weapons bay, as well as advanced avionics and sensors providing enhanced situational awareness, advanced radar tracking and targeting capabilities, and integrated EW [electronic warfare] systems”, the Congressional report said.

In December, a mock-up of a
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

was spotted at a military facility on the perimeter of Savannah-Hilton Head Airport in Georgia, which is home to the US Air Dominance Centre.

The Marine Corps Training and Education Command later told the Marine Corps Times that the replica jet had been involved in various experiments and military training while at the Savannah base.

Adam Ni, a China researcher at Macquarie University in Sydney, said that as the US embarked on a new Indo-Pacific strategy, it had no choice but to confront China’s growing influence in the region.

“The PLA has increasingly been called upon to defend and advance Chinese interests abroad, such as the protection of key sea routes, and Chinese overseas communities and investment,” Ni said.

“A more advanced bomber and fighter fleet will enable Beijing to better deter the US in regional interventions by raising the costs and risks for the American forces. Such scenarios include the Taiwan Strait and the South China Sea.”

Last weekend Chinese Defence Minister General Wei Fenghe
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, saying the PLA would stand firm and defend China’s national interests in areas such as Taiwan and the South China Sea.
“In Beijing’s view, the intensifying strategic competition between China and the US calls for more resources to be directed at enhancing military capabilities and readiness so the PLA can deter conflict. Flashpoints such as Taiwan, and South and East China Seas are important to Chinese military planning,” Ni said.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
With the g-limits relaxed, F-35 demos are becoming more and more interesting. 9g tactical pitch:

From RIAT 2018:

There's also a new engine coming up with 5-10% more thrust which would put in the 200kN class.

Indeed they are Max, and this is "most impressive", the tactical break-out is a 9G turn it inside out turn, with a roll-over to the right and a very high A-O-A on the pipe climb-away, very neat, and one of the most impressive "Western" airshow maneuvers...

having said that, the Russians remain consummate showmen, nobody tops the Su-35 airshow, the Su-57 is pretty amazing as well, but I think the edge has to go to the Flanker!
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
This has less I think to do with J20 and more with US forces and hyping PRC aspirations.

I posted a link from the Drive regarding the reactivating of the 65th Aggressor Squadron in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
With Both SU57, J20 even F35 exports and Emerging Fifth gen programs abroad, it’s only a matter of time before the proliferation of fifth generation fighters ends up in a possible Fifth on Fifth or fourth on fifth violence. As such being able to train against a fifth generation machine from fourth or fifth gen machines is a need. The US chose F35 however because it is plentiful. It is the most numerous Fifth gen in the world and likely to remain such already outnumbering F22, and those easily outnumbering J20 and SU57 combined over 8 to 1.

It would be interesting more news worthy if the PLAAF had dozens more J20 or even FC31 flying and spun off “4th Gen Blue Air squadrons.” But right now it’s to early they have used J20 to stand in for F22 and F35 but it’s to few for them to do wider DACT of Fifth gens vs fifth gens. As such the article is more wishful thinking.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
This has less I think to do with J20 and more with US forces and hyping PRC aspirations.

I posted a link from the Drive regarding the reactivating of the 65th Aggressor Squadron in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
With Both SU57, J20 even F35 exports and Emerging Fifth gen programs abroad, it’s only a matter of time before the proliferation of fifth generation fighters ends up in a possible Fifth on Fifth or fourth on fifth violence. As such being able to train against a fifth generation machine from fourth or fifth gen machines is a need. The US chose F35 however because it is plentiful. It is the most numerous Fifth gen in the world and likely to remain such already outnumbering F22, and those easily outnumbering J20 and SU57 combined over 8 to 1.

It would be interesting more news worthy if the PLAAF had dozens more J20 or even FC31 flying and spun off “4th Gen Blue Air squadrons.” But right now it’s to early they have used J20 to stand in for F22 and F35 but it’s to few for them to do wider DACT of Fifth gens vs fifth gens. As such the article is more wishful thinking.

Seems to me they're just honouring the threat. It's not like we have any information as to how many J-20s the PLA wants to acquire in the medium to long term, so it's only natural that the US would want to prepare for all eventualities.

As far as DACT is concerned, for the US you obviously need a 5th generation fighter to simulate something like J-20, and between the F-22 and F-35 it obviously makes far more sense to use the F-35 given how much more plentiful it is.

I don't see how any of the articles are particularly inaccurate or misleading in those aspects.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
With the g-limits relaxed, F-35 demos are becoming more and more interesting. 9g tactical pitch:

From RIAT 2018:

There's also a new engine coming up with 5-10% more thrust which would put in the 200kN class.

This was actually "Dojo's" first real introduction to the airshow community, and I watched that break-out at RIAT 2018 over and over and over, frame by frame. One of the old head's on Defense Talk our sister forum, called it a "bobble" there in the middle, another swore that it was not a 9G pull as testified to by "your's truly", because he preferred the "Paris Profile" flown by Billy Flynn, LochMart's senior test pilot, but that show was flown with the 7G hard limit on the FCS...

That "bobble" is actually "Dojo" "unloading" the airframe, prior to making the hard right "pull to the vertical.....

I should add that the Chinese nearly replicated that maneuver with the last solo "break-out" at Zhuhai in the J-20....

I suspect the J-20 FCS limits the J-20 to the same 7G's of the F-35B, the C is rated to 7.5 for Navy, same as the F-18... the Air Force chose's to bring G's up to 9, the highest max G that we are aware of...

The F-22 or Su-35 may be greater?? and I'm sure the F-22 has been well beyond 9 G's, in fact the A model F-35 has been to 9.9 with the limiter OFF...
 
Last edited:

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I am not saying it’s misleading more just not really news for J20.
Also rather humorously the one concept art of what the Red Air F35 might look like, posted by the Commander of the 64th Aggressor Squadron was painted like the Black J31 Demo bird not one of the J20 livery.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I am not saying it’s misleading more just not really news for J20.
Also rather humorously the one concept art of what the Red Air F35 might look like, posted by the Commander of the 64th Aggressor Squadron was painted like the Black J31 Demo bird not one of the J20 livery.

I think it's relevant for J-20 in the sense that the only OPFOR 5th gen fighters the US can be expected to come across in the near future is J-20 and Su-57
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
This has less I think to do with J20 and more with US forces and hyping PRC aspirations.

I posted a link from the Drive regarding the reactivating of the 65th Aggressor Squadron in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
With Both SU57, J20 even F35 exports and Emerging Fifth gen programs abroad, it’s only a matter of time before the proliferation of fifth generation fighters ends up in a possible Fifth on Fifth or fourth on fifth violence. As such being able to train against a fifth generation machine from fourth or fifth gen machines is a need. The US chose F35 however because it is plentiful. It is the most numerous Fifth gen in the world and likely to remain such already outnumbering F22, and those easily outnumbering J20 and SU57 combined over 8 to 1.

It would be interesting more news worthy if the PLAAF had dozens more J20 or even FC31 flying and spun off “4th Gen Blue Air squadrons.” But right now it’s to early they have used J20 to stand in for F22 and F35 but it’s to few for them to do wider DACT of Fifth gens vs fifth gens. As such the article is more wishful thinking.

Heh! Heh! Heh!, No my friend, I can assure you we do take China and the J-20 very seriously, although I like many others are mystified at why J-20 numbers continue to hover around 20 airworthy aircraft, I suspect that China may not be completely satisfied with the J-20 at present, possibly due to the WS-15 not being ready for flight test, much less production...

But Marilyn Hussen is looking for Chairman Xi to give him the Lockheed Martin F-35 "Salesman of the Month" award for the 72nd consecutive month! yes Chairman Xi is LockMart's most prolific airplane salesman since shortly after his election in March of 2013...

Yep that feller has sold a bunch of F-35's, and F-16V's, and F-15S's, well you get my drift, he's going to get a hell of a production bonus, heck, he could probably afford to buy engines from "Pratt and Whitney"??? for his little bird...
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Heh! Heh! Heh!, No my friend, I can assure you we do take China and the J-20 very seriously,
I have no doubt about the USAF taking J20 seriously. My point is that this doesn’t seem to have a lot of meat mostly bread in this news sandwich.
I think it's relevant for J-20 in the sense that the only OPFOR 5th gen fighters the US can be expected to come across in the near future is J-20 and Su-57
Accurate as those are the only two Peers in any serious status or development. J31/FC31 is just a demo bird for the foreseeable with numbers that could be counted on one hand after a serious industrial accident.
The Iranian bird is considered a Joke.
The Japanese bird was a technology demonstration.
The South Korean, Turkish, Indian birds are still in CAD.
And anything else is talking after 2030.
So yeah but low hanging fruit, established fact. Nothing really shocking or news about it.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
This has less I think to do with J20 and more with US forces and hyping PRC aspirations.

I honestly wish we could chuckle and sincerely say they were hyping PRC aspirations? really, I do, but no I'm honestly very happy that the PRC and the Russian's seem to be having some issues getting 5th Generation aircraft up to a production standard.

but there's no doubt in my mind about the PRC intentions and aspirations, its not if, but when!
 
Top