F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
That’s the norm for these types of deals. Besides because it is the F35 what would they do? Install a system off F15 wouldn’t work. It has to be tailored to the fighter. It’s not like the old head phones jack on your phone. This is a complicated component to be integrated.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I am pretty sure the Japanese can design, modify, better Oxygen generator But they have to synchornized it with other system. And has to access the system or modify the source code. Which is not allowed because they don't own the system. That is the price you pay for not having independent fighter jet program. But they have good living standard for not spending money on defence So who is to complain
 
Last edited:
Mar 1, 2019
Feb 21, 2019
hey Brumby what 'kill ratio' did they later announce, forty to zero perhaps? could be, now with the new software drop unavailable during Red Flag 17-1

LOL
and inside
Retired Generals Press Congress to Fund More F-35s, Discourage “Legacy” Buy
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:

The writers noted that the F-35 is doing well in deployments and has racked up “a 28:1 kill ratio at recent Red Flag exercises in Nevada.”
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I am pretty sure the Japanese can design, modify, better Oxygen generator But they have to synchornized it with other system. And has to access the system or modify the source code. Which is not allowed because they don't own the system. That is the price you pay for not having independent fighter jet program. But they have good living standard for not spending money on defence So who is to complain
Again predicated on the assumption of a a failure of the Oxygen generator.
But they have to synchornized it with other system. And has to access the system or modify the source code.
True for any modern fighter program. From any nation.
Which is not allowed because they don't own the system. That is the price you pay for not having independent fighter jet program. But they have good living standard for not spending money on defence So who is to complain
Here is the Rub of this line of reasoning. The fewer a production line makes the more it costs. This is as the Overhead and R&D has to be paid for. That is spread across the production.
The Japanese F35A we are talking about were assembled in Japan by Mitsubishi Heavy industries. But the price of doing so is very very high.
This is true for a pure indigenous fighter program to. For a nation like Japan it becomes a balancing act.
Because the Japanese don't export their indigenous systems the Overhead bill gets eaten by the Japanese tax payers. In other words it's the reverse. Because there systems are produced at home or indigenous there is no export. Without export the Japanese eat the bill.
Because of the higher cost of labor in Japanese manufacturing the price point of assembly or indigenous programs jumps vs a military export nation. In other words they are spending more or less.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I am pretty sure the Japanese can design, modify, better Oxygen generator
you are? you're sure they can design a better oxygen system??? and why would you believe such nonsense Bub, because that's what you're promoting here...

If there were a "better" oxygen system, it would be on the F-35, F-22, F-15, F-16, F-18... oxygen tanks are very heavy and need to be filled each time, the OBOGs is a "better oxygen generator", its not perfect obviously.... so according to our resident internet physiological expert, how could we improve it??

but really the issue I have with your post, is you assuming and putting forth that LockMart is "short changing" the life support systems of our front line fighters, when absolutely nothing could be further from the truth...

If the Japanese? as a full production partner with the US, a highly honorable and prestigious position, had an idea or piece of equipment that would NO DOUBT fix OBOG's once and for all, it would immediately be incorporated into everybody's F-35.....

Since hypoxia has been pushed to the fore front of concern, I can assure you that brilliant scientists, with real world credentials and talent have been attempting to "perfect" that "better" oxygen system.

and you know what smart people tell you about "assuming", it makes an ass out of u and me

flying physiology is a very complex field, an oxygen system that is perfect for a person in outstanding physical condition, might be a little less perfect for someone that actually has some "breathing" issues??
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Mar 1, 2019
and inside
Retired Generals Press Congress to Fund More F-35s, Discourage “Legacy” Buy
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:

The writers noted that the F-35 is doing well in deployments and has racked up “a 28:1 kill ratio at recent Red Flag exercises in Nevada.”

The Generals are no doubt right, we need more F-35's, and a higher production rate will bring costs down, so a great argument can be made on both sides... there's little doubt that bringing a new variant of the F-15 into production, and into the inventory will cut into F-35 production rates and decrease number of aircraft fielded in the interim....

Those F-15s would be greatly appreciated and their effectiveness maximized by our highly trained and multi talented F-15 squadron pilots, there's NO DOUBT about this either...
 

Brumby

Major
Mar 1, 2019
and inside
Retired Generals Press Congress to Fund More F-35s, Discourage “Legacy” Buy
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The writers noted that the F-35 is doing well in deployments and has racked up “a 28:1 kill ratio at recent Red Flag exercises in Nevada.”

As a counter argument, a 28:1 kill ratio and even with a fleet of 380 F-35s mean that there are no where near enough adversary aircrafts to kill (380X28=10640). Why do thy need more F-35s? I wonder where were these "Generals" when the F-22 was truncated. Did they write a similar letter to Congress in support of the F-22? Comparing F-35s vs F-15EX is an apples vs oranges exercise as they are designed for different roles. I guess the Europeans, the Chinese, and the Russians did not get the memo as they are still busy buying 4th gen airframes. There is a saying "When all you have is a hammer, every solution is a nail".
 

Brumby

Major
flying physiology is a very complex field, an oxygen system that is perfect for a person in outstanding physical condition, might be a little less perfect for someone that actually has some "breathing" issues??

There was a series of award winning articles done by AWST covering the issue of hypoxia. The issue itself is complex because it is the interaction of high performance machines with the complexity of the human body. The Japanese article is speculating with the premise that the missing F-35 is hypoxia related and the rather simplistic view that somehow the Japanese has a solution. It is written from ignorance.
There are a bunch of medically related symptoms:
upload_2019-5-3_10-13-51.png
It also a false hood to think the issue is related to only the 5th generation airplanes.
upload_2019-5-3_10-15-40.png
upload_2019-5-3_10-16-16.png
 
and in the meantime

One of the F-35′s cost goals may be unattainable
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The
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doesn’t believe the F-35 program office can achieve a “stretch goal” of getting the "A" model’s
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by fiscal 2025,
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.

“The department doesn’t see a path to get to $25,000 dollars per flying hour by FY25,” said Robert Daigle, the outgoing head of the Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office, during a House Armed Services subcommittee hearing. “There are a fair number of studies going on right now that are going to provide some more information on that, but that’s a target and it’s not our projection for where we’re actually going to be.”

Both CAPE and the F-35 Joint Program Office arrived at similar projections for the F-35A conventional takeoff and landing variant’s cost per flying hour in FY24, with CAPE estimating $36,000 per hour and the JPO pegging costs at $34,000 per hour, said Daigle, who is stepping down later this month. (The two organizations did not provide an estimate for FY25, which is outside of the regular five-year budget cycle.)

Either figure would be an improvement from the FY18 rate, in which one hour of flight time in the "A" model cost about $44,000. However, the oldest F-35s will begin to move into long-term depot maintenance in the mid 2020s, causing a moderate rise in price during the later portion of the decade.

“After 2024, projections are that the cost per flight hour are going to flatten out and then increase a little bit because the planes are starting to age where you’re going to have to start bringing them back to the depot,” Daigle said.

The JPO has identified steps that it can take to boost reliability, decrease the spare parts shortage and increase the ease of maintaining the F-35, Vice Adm. Mat Winter, the F-35 program executive, told reporters after the hearing. Those factors make him confident the office can meet the FY24 projection of $34,000.

However, reaching $25,000 by FY25 is more of a “stretch goal,” he said. “That will be very, very hard to meet. But it’s FY19 right now, and we have a number of years.”

With the government and Lockheed Martin confident that the unit costs of the F-35A will fall to $80 million by FY20, the Pentagon has turned its eye to lowering the costs of operating and maintaining the F-35. The latest Defense Department acquisition figures —
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— peg O&M costs at $1.196 trillion.

During Thursday’s hearing, Air Force and Defense Department officials used ongoing concerns about F-35 sustainability as a critical argument in favor of purchasing Boeing’s F-15EX fighter jet.

Rep. Donald Norcross, the New Jersey Democrat who chairs HASC’s Tactical Air and Land Subcommittee, asked what, if anything, Congress could do so the Air Force
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.

Air Combat Command head Gen. Mike Holmes acknowledged that the price of the F-35 aircraft is falling, but expressed concern that the service would be able to buy and sustain the systems associated with the jet, like
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and its
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.

“Right now the air vehicle is out ahead of those other elements,” he said. “Producing more elements would be one part of it, but keeping up in all of those other areas — to me — would be the challenge.”

Winter added that while the material needed to manufacture each plane is decreasing, the supply chain is struggling to get parts to Lockheed’s production line on time — which increases labor costs because the aircraft can’t move as quickly through the production process.

“I’m hitting a stagnant plateau with Lockheed Martin because they are 600 parts behind on average: 600 parts not on the production line when I need them,” he said.

The shortage of spare parts also extends to the services’ operational jets, which are competing for the same supply of components as a new production aircraft.

“That supplier that generates a widget is generating a new widget for the production line, for our spare package, and we still have to repair the ones that are breaking in the field,” Winter said. In addition, the reliability of parts is still not meeting expectations, and it’s taking too long to move them through depot, he added.

In a statement, a Lockheed spokesman said the company continues to see a path to reach the $25,000 goal by FY25.

“We’ve reduced the Lockheed Martin-portion of F-35 CPFH [cost per flying hour] by about 15 percent since 2015. Lockheed Martin represents less than half of total O&S [operations and sustainment] costs, and we are partnering with our customers to further reduce costs across the enterprise to meet these joint goals,” he said.
 
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