F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. gelgoog
    Offline

    gelgoog Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    737
    The F-35 tech advantage is overblown. I'll tell you why. We used to be scared of the Soviet conventional forces back in the Cold War. Namely they had a lot more tanks than NATO. It turned out the tanks never became a problem. Because the Soviets wouldn't use the conventional forces against another nuclear power. Same deal will happen with the F-35. Some people seem to think the Russians would not use nuclear weapons. I think it is telling that Putin distanced himself from the Soviet Union's stance that they would not do a first strike. Putin has said more than once that Russia might use nuclear weapons to defend itself even if it isn't hit with nuclear weapons first. I think if any NATO member actually used their air force to attack the Russian Federation, like was done in Serbia, the Russians would go nuclear unlike what people think. It is quite likely they would hit military targets first but I think they would do it. All the major powers are moving us to a situation closer to what was the envisioned nuclear scenario in the 1960s. i.e. tactical use of nuclear weapons.
    Why do you think the Russians have developed the Iskander and the Kinzhal? Or the US is adding a JDAM package to the B-61 nuclear bomb?

    The major powers want to have tactical nuclear weapons in their arsenal. This is something that has changed since the situation we had in the 1990s.

    With regards to the F-35 it is a means for NATO to continue having the advantage in conventional air forces. But at what cost? If they don't decrease the operational costs with the F-35 it might become the Western air force's undoing rather its savior. In a way I think the worst enemy of the F-35 program is itself.
     
    localizer likes this.
  2. Brumby
    Offline

    Brumby Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    My mistake. Just ignore it then. No worries.
     
    Air Force Brat and Jura like this.
  3. TerraN_EmpirE
    Online

    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,351
    Likes Received:
    9,702
    The objective of Fifth generation platforms is to be able to operate as part of a package of strike options in denied airspace. Including use as a tactical nuclear platform.
    Warsaw pact tanks couldn't do that. And tanks of the Warsaw pact and NATO are designed to operate in irradiated environments. The Russians intended to use them in nuked territory same as Putin's claim.
    Price of admission. Upside you can enter airspace with systems like S400 with reduced risk. That doesn't automatically mean Russia or China mind you. Russia is selling the system abroad.
    We see operations in Syria for example where in text book denied airspace has been formed and the response is text book counter denial. Known use of F22, F35I, B2. rumored use of Predator C, Stealth Hawk helicopter, F117 and RQ170 to support operations and increased use of stand off weapons.
    Rendering the attempt at denial less effective. Although fourth gen fighters and older assets like B52 and A10 are locked out of secured air space the US military presence is maintained and regular operations and support occurs and is retained.
    What this means is attempting to use systems like S400 Offensively that is to say extending a IAD zone beyond that that was already in place as part of your nations recognized sphere has been rendered mute. So if you are a nation looking to annex territory from your neighbor and to do so plant S400 systems like a wall to keep others out fifth gens like F35 show up and kick the door open it not down.

    The Nuclear option is a absolute act of desperation. Once it falls Game Over as a suicide pact is signed. At best it's the ultimate scorched earth. Rendering the territory uninhabitable and the nation state that used them at the very least a pariah. At worst it results in rendering the entire northern hemisphere a disaster for decades. It's getting angry with the neighbors over a tree so you burn it down even as it burns your house down.
     
    Air Force Brat and Brumby like this.
  4. localizer
    Online

    localizer Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    285
    I agree with him. I don’t think we will see F35 be used against a nuclear power offensively, especially it they don’t have a hard counter. Russia will use nukes and they have 1000x more land than retaliatory nukes can cover. Nuclear winter is a lie.
     
    #6554 localizer, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  5. TerraN_EmpirE
    Online

    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,351
    Likes Received:
    9,702
    your agreement is irrelevant. Resistance is Futile.
    As the Nuclear statements in this context are the debaters tactical nuclear option. An attempt at dismissal of the Red Flag exercise in question, by twisting into a hypothetical war sinario IE NATO vs Russia or NATO Vs China.

    Not all nations with IAD are nuclear powers, nor would all such potentials have a nuclear option.
     
    Air Force Brat and Brumby like this.
  6. Air Force Brat
    Offline

    Air Force Brat Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,119
    Likes Received:
    9,529
    Of course its not an issue, do you think the Israeli's are exposing their L/0 aircraft to the S-400's, NO, they're not. There's NO doubt in my mind that Turkey would use those F-35's to run on those S-400's and hopefully find a "chink in its armor", as well as attempting to refine their tactics going up against the S-400..

    I mean, think about it, if you had both systems wouldn't you run them up against each other?? of course you would, but that would "void the warranty" so to speak, we've spent a lot of time, and boatloads of "loot" to bring those F-35's into the 21st Century, that tech is what will continue to protect us from "goofballs" doing stupid stuff...

    Had the Trumpster been President, when the Russians moved on former Soviet Georgia, things would have ended much differently, and the Ukraine would have never happened... the Bamster just doesn't have the "Stones" to have said NO to Putin....

    So although the F-35 was NOT up and running at that time, the F-22 applied in a "show of force", with supporting actors, would have shut that operation down in a hurry.....
     
  7. gelgoog
    Offline

    gelgoog Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    737
    The Russian intervention on Georgia happened back when Bush was POTUS. Don't let that go over your idea that Obama is responsible for the US's "weak stance" against Russia though.
     
    Air Force Brat likes this.
  8. Air Force Brat
    Offline

    Air Force Brat Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,119
    Likes Received:
    9,529
    You're right, but allowing those things to continue and roll into the taking of the Crimea, that's disgraceful,,, "tell Vlad that after the election, I can be more flexible", Obama owns that Bub....

    I'm sure Putin was impressed by the Obama, remember on his last visit to China, President Xi didn't bother to roll out the airstair for him to de-plane, he had to go down the back ramp.....
     
  9. TerraN_EmpirE
    Online

    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    11,351
    Likes Received:
    9,702
    moving My reply here as, this kinda became more of an F35 debate.

    I am well aware that F35 can turn and is very nimble it just seemed like it would be an additional icing on the cake for the A version.
    right had to re fresh myself MATV was on the F16 VISTA in the 1980s LOAN was in 1996. That said nothing says MATV didn't help design LOAN And neither F16 had the three barring lift system of the F35B so the flight tests must have been in conventional flight modes. Not Vertical hover.
    The LOAN was farther touted as a potential retrofit to existing fighters.
    The three barring swivel system is what turns the exhaust system from the normal orientation into the downward position for vertical hover. but that is not the LOAN. Loan doesn't deflect -95º.
    This was the LOAN on F16. download (3).jpeg
    Loan is the actual nozzle it's self and allows a farther degree of Vectoring.
    This is the Three Barring Swivel images (3).jpeg
    It's I suppose it's own form of TVC but specialized for vertical thrust. This combined with some smaller Vectoring nozzles and the Rolls Royce lift fan which it's own Vectoring features are what is in F35B.
    But other than the Low Observable features I don't think F35 has the LOAN it has features of it but not it in total.
     
    Air Force Brat likes this.
  10. Air Force Brat
    Offline

    Air Force Brat Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,119
    Likes Received:
    9,529

    Roger that, and to further confuse the issue, an F-35B with the forward lift fan door open and the aft nozzle deflected at an angle similar to when it flys off the flat decks would indeed have more "lift", and it might actually increase turn rate, but it would be highly airspeed limited.....

    I doubt the FCS would allow the aft nozzle to be deflected downward with the forward lift door closed??

    what would be the max airspeed with the lift fan door opened

    So now for the 64 dollar question?? (that does date us, doesn't it?) when the F-35 Bravo is all cleaned up and transitioned to forward thrust, lift fan door down and locked, does that lift fan continue to spin at a high rpm, or is it taken off line, only to spin up as the forward lift fan is "unlatched"...
     
Loading...

Share This Page