F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Bernard

Junior Member
Look at it this way: For every target an aircraft carrier wants to hit, particularly when the other guy's air defense systems are up and running, it needs to launch a whole slew of jets to accomplish a bunch of related missions. Airborne early warning radar, jammers, fighters, tankers for all those enablers and shooters — the list is long. Cutting that down to just the one or two jets that are going to be sneaking in and hitting stuff makes everyone's life much simpler. This means that the aircraft carrier can now engage a lot more targets at the same time, using the same number of aircraft.

It also means that, every time an aircraft carrier shows up nearby, the bad guys have to factor in the very real likelihood that the carrier group is sending stealthy aircraft in to conduct all manner of surreptitious reconnaissance. That's entirely unprecedented.

Take these different things together and it starts adding up to some major strategic differences. No carrier strike group has ever been able to carry out deep, invasive reconnaissance of sensitive targets. And have you ever heard of a case where you'd call upon the US Marine Corps to launch long-range airstrikes against heavily defended strategic targets on the first day of war?

And speaking of the Marines: Instead of just counting on the 10 giant super-carriers capable of launching big, complex strike formations to take on heavily defended targets, the US can now use the other nine amphibious assault ships that the Marines fly their decidedly non-stealthy AV-8 Harrier ground attack jets from. Substituting F-35 for them means the number of ships that can carry all that stealthy, ISTAR, electronic warfare, and strike capability to the front door of someone the US has beef with almost doubles.

How all these things are going to fold together and change the way that the US can and will project power is fodder for a much larger debate, because things get pretty complex at a strategic level. But there's one thing for sure: US allies flying the F-35 will need less American support for their own operations.

The US has been using stealth technology in combat since 1988, when F-117 jets bombed Panama, so it's really old news that going at war with the Americans means dealing with stuff you can't really see. (Not completely invisible, mind you, just really hard to find and kill.)

People know that a large coalition that involves the US will likely have stealth and a bunch of enablers, so all potential US allies basically have that stuff by proxy. Secondly, a lot of countries that have worked in partnership with the US military have grown fond of all the neat things that the seemingly bottomless US defense budget can provide.

"Just on a matter of scale, the way the UK would do something compared to the USAF or the US Navy, the number of assets and capability they've got is fundamentally different," said Royal Navy Commander Greg Smith. "We don't have all the enablers the US Air Force has. Clearly we operate with the USAF and the US Navy an awful lot ... but [the F-35] gives us the ability not to require so many of those enablers."


So the Brits, who will fly their F-35s from carriers, have just gained that ability to do on their own a lot of the fancy stuff that they could do until now only with the Americans. If they want to carry out a deep stealth strike against, say, Argentina, they don't need the US to hold their hand to do it. Likewise, their contributions will become more important in any coalition, including one involving the US military.

So a whole bunch of countries can now operate at a much higher level, with greater strategic impact, independent of the US. 11 countries other than the US are currently participating in the program and are planning on getting their own complement of F-35 aircraft. To unpack the impact of that, let's look at that list.

We've got seven NATO countries: Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey, and the United Kingdom. This will change the calculus of any fight involving NATO; Russia will be facing off against at least a few new operators of stealthy strike/reconnaissance capabilities in Europe alone.

Going to the Pacific, there are three future users: Australia, Japan, and South Korea. That has the Chinese scrambling in an attempt to make (and quite possibly copy) their own stealth fighter jet, to counter the advance in strategic capability the F-35 gives their regional adversaries.

In the Middle East, Israel's acquisition of the F-35 is, in some ways, just a continuation of its long-standing policy of maintaining a qualitative edge over its neighbors. But it also affects the power dynamic between Israel and Iran; the latter must be worried that there are now more options for an Israeli strike against Iranian nuclear facilities.

These non-US operators of the F-35 can be divided into two subsets, each with its own strategic implications.

First off are the countries that will be getting the short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) version, the F-35B, and have ships that will be able to launch and retrieve. Italy has a new assault carrier, roughly equivalent to those US amphibious assault ships. The Brits are about to launch their second Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier. Although smaller than the US's active and planned super-carriers at 65,000 tons versus 100,000, the UK ships will be about the size of current and planned Chinese and Russian aircraft carriers.

Meanwhile, the Italians launched their new flagship, the Cavour, in 2004, and have open orders for the F-35B variant, which may be able to operate from either the Cavour or the older Giuseppe Garibaldi. That said, there's a fair bit of instability surrounding these plans right now, so it might not be prudent to print the formal announcements quite yet.

[part2]
 

Bernard

Junior Member
[Part 3]

Beyond these two, there are some other far, far, less likely options out there. For instance, Japan, Australia, and South Korea all operate small carriers that, with a lot of work, could be used with the F-35B, though none of those countries have announced plans to get the STOVL variant or modify their ships. Then again, we're talking about 50-year or longer lifespans for the F-35, so it's always a future option.

Either way, it's worth noting that this means both the UK and Italy will soon have cutting-edge power projection capabilities, equaled only by the US and substantially better than the vast majority of the planet. These guys are moving to the head of the class.

The second subset of foreign F-35 operators comprises those that have to do with nukes. Again, the US has had stealth bombers for decades, so stealthy nuke delivery is taken for granted in some circles. However, three of the five NATO countries that are hosting shared nuclear weapons provided by the US are also in the F-35 program: Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey. They are going to be getting the standard F-35 variant, the F-35A, which will be able to carry the B-61 free-fall bombs that those countries currently host.

In essence, within a few years, there will be US-owned nukes in three European countries that will have their host nations' names on them and will be able to be delivered by stealthy nuclear-strike aircraft.

Before anyone freaks out, it's vitally important to note that the paperwork for taking one of these nukes out for a spin has got to be absolutely prohibitive, so while the nuclear weapons are shared, it's pretty easy to imagine that their peacetime owner — the US — would be able to veto any use of those weapons, which means that, in practice, it doesn't really indicate an independent nuclear capability.

Which is entirely different from the UK. Right now, the nuclear missiles on British subs are US Trident missiles, with UK warheads. Both countries need to give the thumbs up before they can start nuking people, but the important part here is that the UK owns the warheads. Thus, it's entirely possible that the UK will be able to have stealthy, nuclear-capable strike aircraft and the nukes to use with them. So far, there are no plans for certifying either the STOVL F-35B (which the UK is getting) or the carrier-based F-35C as nuclear capable for the US; however, the UK is the top foreign partner in the F-35 program, so never say never.

Outside of NATO, Israel has its own nuclear weapons program, although details are sparse about whether the Israeli version, the F-35I, will be able to use nuclear weapons. But, again, even if it's not an announced capability today, that doesn't mean it's not on the board. Israel already has (unofficially, but it's an open secret) land- and submarine-based nukes, and adding nuclear capability to the F-35 means that Israel will be getting a very flexible, survivable nuclear deterrent — just in time for a budding Iranian nuclear program to start running.

Beyond that, it's worth pointing out that countries like Japan and South Korea don't currently have their own nuclear weapons programs, but are widely regarded as being nuclear capable. If you can make your own reactors and have a bunch of top-flight scientists sitting around with a bunch of plutonium, it's just a matter of time and inclination.

Where all this gets crazy is when you consider that one particular country is in both smaller groups. The UK will not only have a pretty top-notch stealthy power projection capability, but will also have its own independent nuclear capability. To be absolutely clear, we're well off into the wilds on speculation at this point. It'd be pretty polite to just call this conjecture. But, if nothing else, it would explain why the UK is going to two carriers: it means they should always have one available. In the context of the UK's current debates about replacing all their nuclear missile subs, it means delivery of nukes from an F-35 will almost certainly come up in discussion.

All of this hypothesizing is aimed at making one point clear: The F-35 program is going to have some pretty major downstream strategic impacts. But, at this point, it's far, far too early to tell what the impact will be. It's like trying to figure out what effect Henry Ford's invention of automotive mass production would ultimately have on teenage pregnancy a half century later.

Moreover, aircraft evolve a great deal during a production run, especially now that the costs of developing a brand-new aircraft have become so harrowing.

Which brings us back around to the program as it stands today. It would be reckless not to mention the huge price tag of the program or the many
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about the plane's reliability.

"Lots of people focus on the here and the now: 'Is the F-35, today, April 2016, performing to the standard we want it to?' Well of course it's not; it's still in test! People miss that," Smith said. "What can we do between now and whenever this goes out of service in 20, 30, 40, 50 years' time or whatever? This aircraft will be fundamentally different in 10 years' time to what it is now. The capability is just going to keep expanding, and you can react to world changes."

Taking the technological maturity of the plane and balancing that against future capabilities is a political decision. In that way, it's similar to the cost. It's obvious that buying a couple thousand aircraft is going to run quite a tab. The more worthwhile questions have to do with what each plane costs and, therefore, what other spending or capabilities are being skipped in order to buy that one particular aircraft. Again, that's getting into tolerance for risk, budget priorities, and how well your crystal ball works; all good topics, but topics for another day.

But now that production is beginning to kick into high gear, which, in a sense, makes questions about technological bugs and cost a bit beside the point. If the program is here to stay anyway, then the question is what the hell you're supposed to do with the plane, today, tomorrow, and half a century from now. The program is in all likelihood too far along to kill; the big question now is where it's headed.

It's important to note that the best plane in the world doesn't do a darn thing to the strategic balance if the engine won't start when you turn the key. Stay tuned for Part 3, when VICE News digs into the F-35's quirks, problems, and idiosyncrasies.

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Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
First error that jumped out at me was about the E-2D Hawkeye. They don't fly 'above the centre' of the carrier group, they fly on station several hundred miles away from the carrier group, so looking for something beneath them of about 100,000 tonnes will be pretty fruitless. The carrier will be elsewhere.

Also the UK's Trident missiles may be from a shared 'pool' of missiles with the US but the subs are ours, the warheads are ours and if the UK government decides to fire them the US does not have a veto. The only realistic circumstances in which they would be fired is if the UK was obliterated by a foreign attack, in which case the Prim Ministers orders would be taken out of a safe on the SSBN on patrol and his orders followed. That's how Mutually Assured Destruction works. You may kill us, but we will kill you in return. Everyone loses.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
First error that jumped out at me was about the E-2D Hawkeye. They don't fly 'above the centre' of the carrier group, they fly on station several hundred miles away from the carrier group, so looking for something beneath them of about 100,000 tonnes will be pretty fruitless. The carrier will be elsewhere.
On large strike packages, an E-2D may be sent, with appropriate escorts, trailing behind the pack, but providing critical AEW&C coverage for them and to their front.

Also, one may well be out a hundred or more miles on the principle threat axis, but there may also be one somewhere within 50 miles of the carrier.

Just depends on the threat environment.
 

Brumby

Major
Final F-35 Testing Slips To 2018
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WASHINGTON – The military’s top weapons tester has been warning for months that the F-35 will not be ready for its final major test phase until 2018 at the earliest. Today, the Pentagon officially acknowledged the schedule slip.

“We reviewed the status of operational test planning, and there is consensus that that is likely to occur in calendar year 2018 given the realities of the schedule at this time,” said Frank Kendall, the Pentagon’s top acquisition official, during a Tuesday conference call. “The target was the middle of 2017, but it’s clear we’re not going to make that.”

This slip reflects a six-month delay for initial operational test and evaluation, or IOT&E, the last major period of testing before full-rate production.

The joint program office’s objective to begin IOT&E was August or September of 2017, said JPO Chief Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, speaking to reporters along with Kendall after the F-35 Chief Executive Officer roundtable in Phoenix, Ariz. But that start date has slipped to January or February, he said.
The challenge lies with retrofitting all 23 aircraft required for IOT&E with the full 3F software and hardware capability, Bogdan said.

“We believe that in order to get all 23 airplanes for the [operational test] fleet to a full 3F production-representative configuration is going to take us longer than” anticipated, Bogdan said. “That is merely a function of trying to get those older airplanes fully mod-ed to a complete 3F hardware and software capability so they can do IOT&E with production-representative aircraft.”

The delay has nothing to do with the ongoing software glitches that cause the jets’ systems to shut down and need to be re-booted, a recurring problem seen across the fleet, he said.
However, fixing these software issues did lead to a delay in wrapping up testing of the 3i software, which the Air Force needs to declare its F-35A jets operational this year. The work on 3i has eaten up “a majority” of the team’s schedule margin for beginning IOT&E, officials at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., told Defense News recently.

Bogdan has already acknowledged that delivery of the final Block 3F software slipped by four months to late fall of 2017, a delay that was primarily due to the software issues seen in both 3i and 3F.
The JPO is still negotiating with manufacturer Lockheed Martin on the long-delayed ninth and 10th batches of F-35s, valued at about $16 billion total, Kendall also said. Bogdan told reporters earlier this year that he expected to finalize the ninth low-rate initial production contract with Lockheed by the end of March, with the 10th following a few months later.

“We are in the final stages of that negotiation and hopefully it will be closed before too much time goes by,” Kendall said.
The writing on the wall was long known that testing was behind by at least 6 months. It is simply a recognition of that reality.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Final F-35 Testing Slips To 2018
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The writing on the wall was long known that testing was behind by at least 6 months. It is simply a recognition of that reality.

As you have acknowledged, any knowledgeable observer would have already been aware of the challenges of bringing those early birds up to spec, No Surprises here, but just an affirmation of the obvious.

Its ROFL watching and listening to the naysayers lampoon the F-35, while totally ignoring the fact that the J-20 and T-50 are having similar issues with NO aircraft "combat coded" at this time. ROFL

Any "honest" engineer will remind you that with a project of this magnitude, any projections of timing and IOC are highly "speculative", I mean really??? Its always helpful to have a goal time wise, but with a weapon system this complex, (remember, it is the electric jet), its amazing they have accomplished all they have to date, and that projections are running in such a timely manner is tribute to the highly motivated F-35 team!
 

Brumby

Major
As you have acknowledged, any knowledgeable observer would have already been aware of the challenges of bringing those early birds up to spec, No Surprises here, but just an affirmation of the obvious.
I think I said at least a year ago that the timeline will not be met. It is obvious when you read the different status reports that were published that testing was behind and there was no way it could be recovered unless testing was de-graded and that is something that would be counter productive - eventually. I am not convinced that this latest slippage will be the last simply because 3F is where all the stated key deliverables are to be met and there is no further room to "project manage" the activities either in terms of optics or substance. Time will tell.

Its ROFL watching and listening to the naysayers lampoon the F-35, while totally ignoring the fact that the J-20 and T-50 are having similar issues with NO aircraft "combat coded" at this time. ROFL
Well other than the fact that they fly, there are no quantitative data on how well these programs are going. They might be short of a complete disaster and we would not have a clue.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I think I said at least a year ago that the timeline will not be met. It is obvious when you read the different status reports that were published that testing was behind and there was no way it could be recovered unless testing was de-graded and that is something that would be counter productive - eventually. I am not convinced that this latest slippage will be the last simply because 3F is where all the stated key deliverables are to be met and there is no further room to "project manage" the activities either in terms of optics or substance. Time will tell.


Well other than the fact that they fly, there are no quantitative data on how well these programs are going. They might be short of a complete disaster and we would not have a clue.

As PILOT, AV Mechanic associate peon, and BS in Engineering, that's "Bull Shooter" engineering school, I will "swear" to you that this program will have further delays, Alice will be a real pain in the glutteous Maximus, this program will continue to experience those same issues that anyone who has ever pushed a pencil, turned a wrench, and has grease under their nails, and in every crevice of dry cracked skin on their two hands and every other part of their body that mechanics beat on. It just life, and unfortunately, it requires a lot of effort and hard work to accomplish something of this magnitude.

NO self respecting design engineer has ever, ever, ever, considered what it will cost when they set about designing the ultimate fighter aircraft, they look at what they need to accomplish, what it will take to accomplish it, and proceed to do everything in their power to maximize the effectiveness and lethality of their "baby" to about 150%.

Cost cutting, performance robbing, barely enough hardware to get the job done??? that falls to the real politicians that want to control their populations by starving them to death. The lovely little Russian Kalishnikov was initially a beautiful little 30 cal automatic rifle, with machined receiver, nice wood??? even the Russian SKS was a good looking weapon. The Mig-15 was a very sweet flying little bomb?? so?

Now with stamped parts, sloppy fitment, and cheap barrels, the AK-47 will work, but a thing of beauty its not, to make it as accurate as an M-16, especially some of the aftermarket "Rolex Rifles" would take a krap load of money, the average AR-15 is a thing of beauty and great accuracy.

So those test pilots are putting out accurate, concise engineering reviews of the very fine F-35, when they find something they don't like, or can't work, with it gets fixed. To say that we have no idea what a fine little airplane this is??? is really not true, it is a fine airplane, the pilots and mechanics are thrilled to have a new high-performance, highly capable aircraft, if that were NOT the case, we would have "volumes" of unhappy, disgusted aviators, and that is certainly not the case. So while all we may have is anecdotal evidence, we have volumes of very positive reviews, and lots of people wanting to fly the F-35.
 
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