F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Air Force Brat]

Not arguing with the marines they surely need new birds what worries me is the other versions for the air force and navy the marines primary mission has been close air support for jarheads on the ground

Relax Tulsa, what do you expect fielding a new fifth gen, why do you think the Russians and Chinese have a handful of fifth gens??? its expensive, and it very, very complex? it will come together, and it will be a very effective air to air platform in the end, it will do the do!

I am waiting for the first F-35 jockey to flame a Raptor?? that will be news, and no that won't be easy either. Lots of very high intensity work and training going on right now, to bring this bird up to speed.

 

[dtulsa]

If their having these issues with 5 gen birds what's going to happen with the 6 gen

 

[Air Force Brat]

If their having these issues with 5 gen birds what's going to happen with the 6 gen

Repeat after me, "there is no sixth gen, sitting in a hangar, prototype, clay bird, or any other six gen"! really, come on guys, fifth gen is "barely" off the ground, there is NO bleeding edge technological break through that can't be fully fleshed out on existing five gens!

This is the "electric jet", these little glitches will get "worked" and will be fine, that the program office and end users are so up-front is commendable, but keeps those of us who haven't been here and done this on edge??

These issues are "hyped" by the "internet reporters" who want to "nail" somebody, and the forum fanboys who pretend that sixth gens are rolling out of ????? next year, NOT gonna happen. Read the whole article, it will explain the process, twice, for those who are slow to learn???

 

[dtulsa]

I wasn't talking anytime soon just when it comes time to replace the 5 gen birds due to age etc. They could very well bankrupt a nation I include all different types of 5 gen aircraft from all nations

 

[Air Force Brat]

I wasn't talking anytime soon just when it comes time to replace the 5 gen birds due to age etc. They could very well bankrupt a nation I include all different types of 5 gen aircraft from all nations

Yes, I believe I did mention they were "expensive", as well as very complex, and if they bankrupt the bad guys??? that's good! Yes?????

 

[dtulsa]

Yes, I believe I did mention they were "expensive", as well as very complex, and if they bankrupt the bad guys??? that's good! Yes?????

well if the gen 5 stay in service as long as planned I probably wont ever see a gen 6

 

[Brumby]

I wasn't talking anytime soon just when it comes time to replace the 5 gen birds due to age etc. They could very well bankrupt a nation I include all different types of 5 gen aircraft from all nations

You probably haven't heard of Augustine's laws. His law number XVI states :
"In the year 2054, the entire defense budget will purchase just one aircraft. This aircraft will have to be shared by the Air Force and Navy 3-1/2 days each per week except for leap year, when it will be made available to the Marines for the extra day."

 

[dtulsa]

I was thinking they may have to purchase individual parts and assemble them only crisis the navy could have the wings and landin hear the airforce the engine the marines the electronics and to assemble one complete aircraft takes about 10 years to be completed by Lockheed Boeing Northrop Grumman and every other contractor

 

[Brumby]

F-35 Joint Program Office Working Through Lingering Software Issues

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The F-35’s logistics information system’s inability to integrate engine data with other vital information about the aircraft is causing a two-month delay in the Air Force reaching its initial operating capability and forcing Marines to use “lots of time-consuming work-arounds” to keep their F-35 Lightning II’s flying.

On Tuesday before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, the program executive officer, said the difficulty of having the Pratt & Whitney engine software talk to the Lockheed-Martin aircraft software and integrate that data with the Air Force’s system is a challenge that his office “understands where the difficulties are” and is addressing.

In his assessment of the autonomic logistics information system’s performance with the Marine Corps, Michael Gilmore, director of the Pentagon’s Operational Test and Evaluation office, said there still is “too much reliance on sending parts back” to the manufacturer rather than fixing them on board ship or ashore that require too many contractors to be present. He said those maintenance conditions were “not acceptable in combat.”

The Pentagon’s top acquisition official, Frank Kendall agreed there is a “suite of a lot of things that have to happen” from integrating data not only from manufacturers but fusing data from other aircraft to be worked out.

Gilmore said the goal with the proposed upgrade of the sophisticated logistics system to be delivered soon will have an “impact not just now but through [the F-35’s] lifecycle.” As for fusing data from other aircraft to better assist pilots in combat, he added, “It will require a lot of reiterative testing, fix, test.”

Michael Sullivan, from the General Accountability Office, said even with the changes in the program being made, the aircraft still poses “affordability challenges” well into the future.

In two reports and observations released 14 April,

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, Navy and Air Force the United States will be spending $13 billion annually

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. That will be happening at the same time as new aircraft carriers and the Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines are being built,

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.

Kendall said since the F-35 program was re-baselined four years ago, production costs have been coming down with an estimate per unit price expected to fall to $85 million when production lines are operating at full capacity, reliability is increasing and expected sustainability costs have dropped by 10 percent. On sustainment over the long term, he said changes in approach will “introduce competition” and the department and industry will “look for creative ways of working together.”

One senator estimated the sustainability cost of the program at $1 trillion over the aircraft’s lifecycle of 30 years.

While reluctant to talk in open session about potential cyber vulnerabilities, Gilmore said that so far testing has been confined to surrogate or lab systems. Earlier, he said those vulnerabilities “are significant.”

Bogdan said the need for a fifth-generation fighter was pressing. “Our adversaries today are full speed ahead [and accelerating].” He added that it was no surprise that new fighters developed by Russia and China look very much like American models, but the difference comes with what’s inside the airframe and “the weapons we employ.”

One way future F-35 costs will be contained is through foreign military sales, a path not open when the F-22 was being developed and fielded, Bogdan said. He said even the smallest order from a foreign nation comes to two F-35 squadrons. The first F-35 built in Italy rolled out in March 2015. He added that F-35s, built in the United Kingdom, and with the Marine Corps will be on display and fly at Farnborough Airshow this summer.

All the witnesses agreed with Sullivan’s assessment that the F-35 program at its outset set too optimistic goals and “you should not buy aircraft when you are developing them.” The term used at the start of the program was “concurrency” with an announced goal that it would be a joint aircraft with three-quarters of its parts the same. Kendall repeated his earlier description of that decision as “acquisition malpractice.” Gilmore added that the serial approach now being used to address shortfall “takes longer,” but “actually fixes problems” such as software stability, radar glitches, wing cracks on the Navy variant, etc.

Chairman John McCain (R-AZ), said, the program presented an “illusion of jointness” and provided “a textbook example of why” the committee has taken on acquisition reform, particularly since last fall, as the centerpiece of its oversight responsibility. He added the committee would not approve in the near term the retirement of legacy aircraft, such as the A-10, F-16 and FA-18 that the Defense Department included in its budget request.

Bogdan said to better handle large programs such as the F-35 there needed to be “continuity at the top for many years” in the Pentagon on both the civilian and uniformed side. To do that for the military, there would need to be a change in policy on assignments and law to ensure the possibility of promotion even if an officer stayed in the same position for four or five years.

“You must ensure risk between industry and government is balanced. We did not get that right” at the start of the F-35 program, he said.

 

[Brumby]

McCain Lays Down Law On F-35 Bulk Buy; Kendall Says It Works

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CAPITOL HILL: Sen. John McCain does not want the Pentagon to put together

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, decrying the program’s repeated failures over the last 15 years.

McCain, citing his status as taxpayer watchdog, said during today’s Senate Armed Service Committee’s hearing on the F-35 that no program had ever been bought in a multiyear deal before it was approved for full production.

So, after the hearing. reporters

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the head of Pentagon acquisition, who first floated the idea of a bulk buy almost a year ago. The U.S. and Joint Strike Fighter program international partners would procure up to 450 F-35s over three years, with 150 bought each year. While they won’t try for a bulk buy this year, Kendall was firm that the approach made sense for the Pentagon and for the taxpayer.

“Given that we are going to keep buying these warplanes, we should buy them as cheaply as we can,” Kendall told me.

Gen. Chris Bogdan,

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, added that “a block buy is less risky from a government standpoint than a multiyear” because a multiyear requires a contract specifying exactly how many aircraft you plan to buy, while the bulk buy carries with it no termination liability. Bottom line, though, Bogdan asked: “If you can save $2.5 billion and there’s very little risk, why wouldn’t you do this?”

Perhaps the most significant issue facing the program over the next two years lies with something that has dogged it for at least a year, since Air Force

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, head of F-35 integration, told me in

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about it: It’s development of the mission data files or “threat library.” The data on missile launches, frequencies, opponents’ weapons and their sensors come from the Intelligence Community (IC). The Office of Secretary of Defense’s Intelligence Mission Data Center gathers the data from across the IC. Then the $300 million

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at Nellis Air Force Base turns that information into threat data for all three versions of the F-35, as well as for its international partners. (That lab will be joined by three more over the next few years, Bogdan said this afternoon.)

This looks like a case where someone simply goofed. “Despite a $45 Million budget provided to the Program Office in FY13, the required equipment was not ordered in time and the USRL is still not configured properly to build and optimize Block 3F Mission Data Files (MDFs). The program still has not designed, contracted for, and ordered all of the required equipment – a process that will take at least two years for some of the complex equipment – after which significant time for installation and check-out will be required,”

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, said in prepared testimony. When I asked him about this, Bogdan confirmed the situation: “He is right that we didn’t buy this in time.”

Does this really matter? Yes. Gilmore put it simply in his written testimony: “If the situation with the USRL is not rectified, U.S. F-35 forces will be at substantial risk of failure (emphasis added) if used in combat against these threats.”

Finally, Kendall told Alaska Sen. Angus King during the hearing that there wasn’t a great chance of the Navy and Air Force developing an aircraft together any time soon, as happened with the F-35. Both services are in the early stages of

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.

“We’re now thinking about the follow-on aircraft for the Navy and the Air Force, and I don’t think we’re going to repeat this [joint acquisition],” Frank Kendall said. “The design parameters are going to be quite different for the follow-on aircraft of the two services. We did get some benefit from the commonality, but there’s very little commonality in the [airframe] structure,” Kendall said.

At the same time, Kendall told King that the Pentagon “could still get some of those benefits without having to have a single program,” by building cockpits and sensors with a great deal of commonality.

"Bottom line, though, Bogdan asked: “If you can save $2.5 billion and there’s very little risk, why wouldn’t you do this?”
The problem is that the Senate doesn't buy the little risk story line. Bulk buy will drive the unit cost down to $85 million per unit and the program will claim victory and objective achieved. There is simply no indication yet that the program is stable and hence little risk. The risk is to the US taxpayers and program partners that will be paying for a long time down the road all the retrofitting needed because the little risk may not be so little.