F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Brumby

Major
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Cyber attack on Joint Strike Force program failed to unearth classified information, says US General Christopher Bogdan

No worries ... Joint Strike Fighter program executive officer USAF Lieutenant General Chris Bogdan says Chinese spies failed to uncover classified information on the project the head of the Pentagon’s $500 billion US Joint Strike Fighter program says attempts by Chinese cyber spies to steal classified information about the project had failed.

And any physical resemblance between China’s latest fighter jets and the JSF was purely cosmetic, according to JSF program chief Lieutenant General Christopher Bogdan.

Australia is purchasing 72 of the so-called fifth generation stealth fighters built by US giant Lockheed Martin for $12 billion and concerns have been raised about information leaks to the Chinese.

But General Bogdan told News Corp yesterday in Melbourne ahead of the Australian International Airshow that all the information exposed by US whistle blower Edward Snowden came from industry and was unclassified.

“As far as I know of no classified information has leaked into the wrong hands on this program,” General Bogdan said.

Fail ... Chief of air force, Air Marshal Geoff Brown, says Chinese spies have failed to steal classified information form the Pentagon. Picture: Supplied. Source: Supplied

During a lengthy interview and without mentioning China by name General Bogdan said any adversary’s aeroplane was years behind the F-35.

“They are just getting ready to fly and we already have 27,000 hours up.

“Just because it [China’s Chengdu jet] looks like ours doesn’t mean it performs on the

inside like ours,” he said.

“What makes our aeroplane special is the outside stealth, but the inside is just as important and the sensors we have. Information is the coin of the realm.”

General Bogdan also revealed that there had been a steady three per cent per-year drop in the price for the JSF during the past three years.

Is it or isn’t it ... Aviation commentators have pointed to “remarkable” similarities between the Chinese J-31 stealth fighter and the much-delayed F-35. Source: Supplied Source: Supplied

The current price is about $100 million a copy and he said that should fall to about $80 million an aircraft by the time most of the RAAF’s planes are built after 2020.

“That price is starting to approach what it costs to buy a legacy 4th generation fighter

[Super Hornet],” he said.

In addition to the price cut the General aimed to impose through-life cost savings of up to 30 per cent (or $200 billion in today’s money) for 2400 planes over 50 years.

More than 3100 of the stealth jets are due to be built, including 1763 for the US air force and 680 for the Marine Corps and Navy.

Australia’s first JSF’s will arrive in 2018 and the initial squadron will be stood up in 2020.

General Bogdan said the project was tracking well in terms of price and schedule, however other aspects such as the maintenance system, software updates, simulators and the so-called “mission data files” were running about six months behind schedule.

Light years ahead ... General Bogdan said any adversary’s aeroplane was years behind the F-35.

Australian firms have already won hundreds of millions of dollars worth of JSF contracts and with Australia set to become the regional heavy maintenance hub for the plane local industry will benefit for decades to come.

General Bogdan said the program had passed the point of no return and it would become the world’s leading fifth generation warplane.

“The conversation is no longer about whether the program will survive … the question is, who is going to be along for the ride?”

He will also visit the top-secret Woomera firing range in South Australia and RAAF base Williamtown in NSW during his visit.
 

Brumby

Major
the part I don't understand at all is:


the deal made by Israel most recently https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/f-...os-and-pics-thread.t5796/page-231#post-328515
comes with a two times higher price ("about $3b" for 14)

The piece you should be aware of is that every time per unit cost is mentioned it is without engine cost. Engine cost is additional $15 to $25 million depending on variant. Also the cost quoted does not include spare parts, flight simulators, tooling, support equipment, and maybe additional spare engines.

Cost without engines :
F-35A contract settlement
LRIP 4 -- $125 Million -- FY10
LRIP 5 -- $120 Million -- FY11
LRIP 6 -- $117 Million -- FY12
LRIP 7 -- $112 Million -- FY13

F-35B contract settlement
LRIP 4 -- $139 Million -- FY10
LRIP 5 -- $152 Million -- FY11
LRIP 6 -- $145 Million -- FY12
LRIP 7 -- $137 Million -- FY13
(Increase in LRIP 5 due to 16 Bs in LRIP 4, and 3 Bs in LRIP 5)

F-35C contract settlement
LRIP 4 -- $156 Million -- FY10
LRIP 5 -- $140 Million -- FY11
LRIP 6 -- $134 Million -- FY12
LRIP 7 -- $130 Million -- FY13
 

Brumby

Major
another issue, or non-issue:
F-35B Internal Weapons Bay Can't Fit Required Load Of Small Diameter Bomb IIs (Updated)

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credible source, most recent:

I think soon we'll hear from F-35 detractors (well, maybe they've commented already, but right now I don't have time to check their sites :)

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The above article explains the importance of the DBII especially for the USMC for CAS. Version II is stand off capable up to 40 miles and given the F-35 rcs profile is outside the detection range of modern SAM's. This is the type of capability that the F-35B was designed to deliver and given the rather blase attitude of "well we will fix the problem in 2022" is rather mind boggling especially it doesn't appear to be a software issue but rather a physical fit-in issue. In my mind, well if you can't fit 8 why not fit 4 as a start? There is something very wrong in terms of this problem and the way it is being presented.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
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The above article explains the importance of the DBII especially for the USMC for CAS. Version II is stand off capable up to 40 miles and given the F-35 rcs profile is outside the detection range of modern SAM's. This is the type of capability that the F-35B was designed to deliver and given the rather blase attitude of "well we will fix the problem in 2022" is rather mind boggling especially it doesn't appear to be a software issue but rather a physical fit-in issue. In my mind, well if you can't fit 8 why not fit 4 as a start? There is something very wrong in terms of this problem and the way it is being presented.

Of course there is, but they will fix it, but this is an airplane of expediency, cancelling F-22 production to survive this poor little ThunderHogge II is in the top 5 moments in "Stoopidity" for the US military, LOL?? and while master Delft is entirely too negative, I agree that the vertical lift bird does make a lot of sacrifices to do what it must??
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
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The above article explains the importance of the DBII especially for the USMC for CAS. Version II is stand off capable up to 40 miles and given the F-35 rcs profile is outside the detection range of modern SAM's. This is the type of capability that the F-35B was designed to deliver and given the rather blase attitude of "well we will fix the problem in 2022" is rather mind boggling especially it doesn't appear to be a software issue but rather a physical fit-in issue. In my mind, well if you can't fit 8 why not fit 4 as a start? There is something very wrong in terms of this problem and the way it is being presented.
up to 40 miles helpfull vs short/medium range SAM but since some years we have many new SAM whith a range increased about 100 km+, HQ-9, Type 03 Japan, Barak etc...SDB-II helpfull but not replace a AGM-88 mainly for no Stealth aircrafts.
The best SAM decidedly S-300PMU/1, 2 and S-400 even with AGM-88 to attack this is still very difficult and then EA-18G or Tornado ECR very helpfull. But few countries get only 3.

Say to memory, i have see in a excellent blog, a F-35 can approach a S-300 system undetected to 50/70 km then SDB worck. Try find it.
 
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Brumby

Major
up to 40 miles helpfull vs short/medium range SAM but since some years we have many new SAM whith a range increased about 100 km+, HQ-9, Type 03 Japan, Barak etc...SDB-II helpfull but not replace a AGM-88 mainly for no Stealth aircrafts.
The best SAM decidedly S-300PMU/1, 2 and S-400 even with AGM-88 to attack this is still very difficult and then EA-18G or Tornado ECR very helpfull. But few countries get only 3.

Say to memory, i have see in a excellent blog, a F-35 can approach a S-300 system undetected to 50/70 km then SDB worck. Try find it.

40 miles will be a close call depending on the type of threat with the F-35 frontal profile I believe being at 0.01 rcs according to open source. The actual numbers is anybody's guess.
upload_2015-3-1_22-48-13.png
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
up to 40 miles helpfull vs short/medium range SAM but since some years we have many new SAM whith a range increased about 100 km+, HQ-9, Type 03 Japan, Barak etc...SDB-II helpfull but not replace a AGM-88 mainly for no Stealth aircrafts.
The best SAM decidedly S-300PMU/1, 2 and S-400 even with AGM-88 to attack this is still very difficult and then EA-18G or Tornado ECR very helpfull. But few countries get only 3.

Say to memory, i have see in a excellent blog, a F-35 can approach a S-300 system undetected to 50/70 km then SDB worck. Try find it.

I would remind all that those S-300s nor the F-35B will be operating in a vacuum, but as a part of a larger force??? When you fire that S-300-400 up to do the do, those other assets will be taking that system "down", I know I would rather be in that F-35B than the crew of that S-300???
 

Scratch

Captain
If you're going against a foe that still has med-long range SAM systems up and running, you're not going to focus on providing CAS anyway. There will be a (protracted) air campaign against the opposing air defense network first. Only once that is truely degraded will the focus shift from "offensive counter air" via "air interdiction" to "CAS". Of course those phases will overlap, depending on the nature of the conflict.
If some hostile AD capability remains with the onset of the ground action, there will be Growlers / more F-35 in the air standing by in a CAP to do SEAD / DEAD as required. And they'll be using HARM and possibly JSOW and what not.
 
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