EU vs. USA/RUSSIA/CHINA

If United Europe Went to War With The U.S.A
by Harold C. Hutchison
October 4, 2005
Discussion Board on this DLS topic


The European Union is composed of 25 countries that have separate militaries. How would the military of these 25 countries combined stack up when compared to the United States, Russia, and China?

The EU’s carrier force would consist of the Charles de Gaulle and up to a half-dozen V/STOL carriers from the United Kingdom, Spain and Italy. The United Kingdom is working on a class of two new carriers in the 50,000-ton range, the Queen Elizabeth class, and France may buy one as well (due to major problems keeping the de Gaulle operational). The EU navy would also have two cruisers, 38 destroyers, 126 frigates, eight nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, 18 nuclear-powered attack submarines, and 24 ocean-going diesel-electric submarines (plus 22 coastal diesel-electric submarines).

The EU air force would feature a large number of advanced aircraft. This would include the 620 Eurofighters, 294 Rafales, and 526 Tornado GR.4/IDS aircraft. These would be supplemented by Greek F-4s, F-16s from Greece, Belgium, Norway, and the Netherlands, Mirage 2000s from France and Greece, and Harriers from the UK, Spain, and Italy. A combined EU air force would have quality and quantity.

The EU army would bring a mix of forces. The British have six brigades, the French have nine and a half, and the Germans have five regular divisions (with ten and a half brigades). Among other major countries in the EU, Spain has eight brigades, Belgium has 2 brigades, the Italians have another eight brigades, the Netherlands has four brigades, and Greece has 15 brigades. The total force is close to a million men, and features a number of advanced tanks, primarily the British Challenger 2, the French LeClerc, and the German Leopard 2 as well as infantry vehicles like the Warrior, AMX-10, and Marder. Older systems like the AMX-30, M60, Leopard 1, and M113 are also in the mix.

The mixture of quantity and quality of this EU military could easily best Russia, which has a large air force, but its best planes still fall short when compared to the Eurofighter and Rafale. The EU’s combined naval force also clearly outnumbers Russia’s Northern, Baltic, and Black Sea fleets. While the Russians have a few surface vessels that are capable of fighting it out with EU units (like the Kirov-class battlecruisers and the Slava-class cruisers), there are very few of these ships (the Northern, Black Sea, and Baltic fleet have a total of two Kirovs and two Slavas). China’s military is much more outclassed. While China is able to beat the EU in quantity, most of its aircraft are older, and even some of the older EU aircraft (like the Mirage 2000 and F-16) are almost on par with some of China’s best planes (like the Su-27) in the right circumstances.

Against the United States, though, the EU will come up short in some areas. One of these would be beyond the range of land-based air cover. The Atlantic fleet alone has six carriers, each carrying four squadrons of fighters (F/A-18C Hornets and F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, with the F-35 to enter service soon). Beyond the range of land-based air cover, the EU’s navy will be outnumbered in terms of aircraft, and will face more powerful ships and submarines (like the Ticonderoga-class cruisers, Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, Los Angeles-class submarines, and Virginia-class submarines). The air force will meet its match in terms of quantity (the United States Air Force has 924 F-16Cs, 252 F-15C/D, and 132 F-15E in its primary mission aircraft inventory). The American inventory is even larger and the F-22 is entering service, which is miles ahead of other fighters.

The U.S. Army, while outnumbered, has a much simpler logistics train, due to the fact it only has to support the M1A2 Abrams tank and the M2/M3 Bradley fighting vehicles as contrasted to the EU’s hodgepodge of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles (at least a half-dozen types of tanks, and a similar number of IFVs and APCs). The EU faces an incredible logistics challenge as a result of this mix.

Between the qualitative gap with the United States, the much more complicated logistical needs due to the heterogeneous number of weapon systems, and the quantitative gap in such areas as carriers, carrier-based aircraft, and nuclear attack submarines, the EU would come off second-best in a fight with the United States. That said, its second-place finish in a fight would be a very close second.

if the eu fought russia, it would never succed because theyed run out of oil
it the eu fought china, their economies would fall on hard time and money would ber cut form war
if they invaded the u.s,...ill let u decide

the eu is not one country, and should not be though of as one.

if the eu fought russia, it would never succed because theyed run out of oil
it the eu fought china, their economies would fall on hard time and money would ber cut form war
if they invaded the u.s,...ill let u decide

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The EU cannot invade the United States. The only country that can is Canada, and they wouldn't do it anyways.

The EU cannot invade the United States. The only country that can is Canada, and they wouldn't do it anyways.

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I agree. Most Europeans have no idea how many weapons the US citizenry posess. Millions upon millions...Armed militias would rise up everywhere. It would make Iraq look like Disneyland.

Whoever wrote that sernerio had the right outcome. All those old and mismatched equipment the EU has would not mesh as a fighting unit. Those older aircrfat would be knocked out of the sky. The US would have great losses but would prevail in the end.

I just want to live in a world at peace. I really do.

how are they supposed to get here in the first place? the US has the most powerful power projection capability in the world, and look at the amount of strain placed on the logistics chain during the second Iraqi war. Germany has no projection capability. UK has the second most powerful one, but that's only a handful of ships. France? I see 2 carriers and the Mistral class. Italy and Spain are just too weak, each offering one carrier task force that is ill-equiped to fight the Atlantic fleet.

Now an interesting scenario would be to include Russia with the European nations, that would be something.

The major problem with an united EU in a conflict would be the logistical problems. Due to the EU nations (which Norway aint a part of, yet) operates a zillion different weapons and systems, each nations would have to supply their forces with their own supplies, which would dissolve the meaning of a united EU fighting large scale wars.

This ofcoures does not include systems like the Tornado IDS, Atlantique, Super Puma, etc, which many EU countries opperate.