Dubai: Mikoyan, Saab, and General dynamics

Mig-29smt


Gripen C and D


f-16 e/f

should the f-16 have won? or do the other competitors offer more?

Here's a list of all the aircraft that showed up for Dubai 2005:


Korea has entered the exhibitor list for the first time with the T-50 Golden Eagle trainer jet. Pakistan showed up with the K-8 trainer.

No entry from the PRC however.

Maybe next year the JF-17 will definetely come. It will be operating in the PAF by 2006 so hopefully it will be at the major airshows by next year.

You know, the latest news is that JF-17 won't start full rate production until 2009, so I'm questioning whether it would make an appearance there or not. Zhuhai airshow is still the best bet for all Chinese fighter jets.

K-8? Isn't that Chinese? Or was it joint designed?
What planes can China bring to Dubai? What else than the J-10, still classified, or the JH-7A?

PV2 has flown today for LCA.. i gues we might see LCA in show next year( optimisitic) or in two years

sumdud said:

K-8? Isn't that Chinese? Or was it joint designed?
What planes can China bring to Dubai? What else than the J-10, still classified, or the JH-7A?

Click to expand...

The JL-8/K-8 was jointly developed and produced by PRC and Pakistani aviation industry. Here's a short list of the companies involved:

China National Aerotechnology Import Export Corporation (CATIC)
China Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Company (CNAMC/NAMC)
Aviation Industries China (AVIC)
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)
Kamra Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF)

The Pakistanis claim that they had already developed a "similiar" aircraft, somewhat modelled after the BAe Hawk, but did not have the manufacturing capability. So they sought PRC's assistance in joint development and setting up domestic manufacturing line at AMF.

However after the K-8 was successfully developed the Pakistanis decided not to setup domestic manufacuring facilities and opted to just import them from China instead. The AMF went on to make the MFI-395 Super Mushak
(turboprop trainer) and interest in the K-8 declined. Ironically, Egypt will probably operate more K-8's than PRC and Pakistan combined.

As for PRC entering the Dubai air show, how about the L-15 trainer?

JF-17 and LCA are pretty much in the same bought. They are not going to be certified for a few years. Even if you bring them to these shows, it really doesn't serve too many practical purpose. It is possible that L-9 and L-15 will both show up at these foreign airshows in the future, but that just shows the competitive nature of the Chinese market these days. With the good sales number of K-8, I'd expect L-15 to be the only one that can get any kind of export.

tphuang said:

JF-17 and LCA are pretty much in the same bought. They are not going to be certified for a few years. Even if you bring them to these shows, it really doesn't serve too many practical purpose. It is possible that L-9 and L-15 will both show up at these foreign airshows in the future, but that just shows the competitive nature of the Chinese market these days. With the good sales number of K-8, I'd expect L-15 to be the only one that can get any kind of export.

Click to expand...

IMO we should also consider that Dubai air show targets mostly Middle-Eastern customers, which would give Pakistan (an Islamic country) an advantage. I suspect Egypt choose the K-8E because 1) it's co-developed by a fellow Muslim country, and 2) Egypt has an existing defense-industry relationship with Pakistan:


The Egyptian and Pakistani governments reportedly agreed in November 2000 on a major bilateral defense trade agreement which involved the refurbishment of Egyptian Air Force (EAF) aircraft in Pakistan in exchange for the supply of Egyptian F-16A/B spare parts to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

Egypt does not send its J-6 & J-7 to PRC for rebuild, they send them to Pakistan. Even if the L-15 was ready and proven better than the K-8, I think the Middle Eastern customers would still lean toward the K-8 or Super Mushak.

On the plus side, this would give the FC-1/JF-17 an export advantage to Middle Eastern & African customers that cannot afford expensive western aircraft...

CATIC aims to sell 250 more K-8's in the next decade
(I think what they mean is, they expect Pakistan to make the sale for them)



Chinese Company to Sell 250 More K-8 Aircraft in Next Decade
2005-11-30 21:08:19 CRIENGLISH.com

A senior manager of a major Chinese aircraft-exporting company said in Cairo on Wednesday that it will sell 250 more K-8 training jets in overseas markets in the next 10 years.

Zeng Wen, vice president of the export department of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC), revealed the ambitious plan at the final day of the 2005 Forum for K-8 International Customers, which kicked off in Cairo on Sunday.

"CATIC has sold 249 K-8 trainers since 1994 to our clients across southeast Asia, the Middle East and Africa," said Zeng.

"We aim to sell 250 more in the next 10 years so that by the year 2015 the total number of K-8 exported will probably reach around 500," Zeng added.

The 38-year-old aviation engineer believed "sustained quality services" will help CATIC sell more K-8 trainers in the highly competitive international market.

"We're a relative new player in the market, but things are getting better as we offer first-class products with sustained quality services," Zeng explained.

K-8, which stands for Karakoram-8, is a two-seat advanced training jet and light ground attack aircraft developed by Chinese and Pakistani engineers.

The aircraft is designed to provide basic flying training with capacity for light air-to-ground close support.

Egyptian Air Forces has been the largest receiver of the K-8 trainers since CATIC signed a contract of 347.4 million US dollars in 1999 with the Egyptian Defense Department to export 80 K-8E aircraft, an Egyptian version of the K-8 series.

(Source: Xinhua)