Drawing First Blood (Tank V.S Tank)

Discussion in 'Army' started by Kampfwagen, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. Kampfwagen
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    Kampfwagen Junior Member

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    First off, I want a bit of an introduction. I'm new here, this is my first post and I want to really commend the makers of this site for their incredible ammounts of information regarding the modern Chinese military. I'm new here, and I dont pretend to be an expert on the Chinese Military but I am an avid fan of forgien militaries, especialy those such as China and Japan. And I really want to know more so that I may become, one day an expert.

    Now for my question.

    A 'friend' of mine, who is actualy a member of a tank corp and the driver of an M1A2 Abrams MBT.

    Now my friend is an avid lover of tanks and how they work. He also seems to have a bit of a somewhat egotistical look upon both his tank and the military of China. He says that, and I quote "China is under a log" and that "A nuke would really help correct that nation". Now dont kill the messenger, I dont consider that to be the truth at all which has made me ask for an outside source.

    Assuming that, a Type 98 Tank could ambush a single Abrams on level ground, one-on-one and the T-98 could 'draw first blood' and fire first, would it be enough to destroy or disable the M1?

    Now I realize that an M1, if it got first shot on a T-98 would be a massacre, seeing as how the T-98 is based on the T-72, an at best problematic peice of armor. But I do not know the various shot loads, or if there are others asside from the loads you mentioned (Aparently, the Abrams is immune to the SABOT rounds the T-98 fires, but my 'friend' mentioned nothing about the guided tank-fired rocket you mentioned.)

    Any help and/or clarification would really help! Thanks!
     
  2. MIGleader
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    MIGleader Banned Idiot

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    the big advantage the type 98 has over an mi is the krsnopol or chinese version ATGMs, which have a longer range than the m1s gun. if it got first hit with the missle on the side or rear of the abrams, the abrams is dead.

    in gulf war one, an iraqi t-72 ambushed an m1 and hit the m1 on the side with a basic heat or sabot round. the m1s top blew up. the type 98 is thus gurenteed a kill if it hits from the side or back.

    an m1 vs t-72 has many outcomes, but that might heat this thread up. i think your question has been answered, and its perhaps best if we close the thread to prevent an m1 vs type 98 explosion.

    now, i think your friend should consider going to china and voicing his opinion. hes the only one under a log, and a good beating would correct him.

    no offence to you.:)
     
  3. utelore
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    utelore Junior Member
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    Negitive, no turret seperation has occured by an M1A1 being engaged by another tank...NEVER...there were a few mission kills but no turret seperation. I have seen hits by T-72 and T-62 sabot. NO EFFECT.
    HEAT will cause damage but never killed the crew.
     
  4. Baibar of Jalat
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    Baibar of Jalat Junior Member

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    Uteo ur right No m1 has had turret blown of off esp in gulf war but the iraqi insurgents have crippled at least 100 tanks of which 70 were sent back for extensive repairs i read this on yahoo news a while back. the numbers ar reseably close to the actual number.

    to my point just because the t-98-99 is based to a extent on the t-72 does not make it the same tank with same capabilities of iraqi t 72s. no one thinks the pakistani al zarrar tank is operationally similiar to the type 59:china:

    the chinese have learnt from mistakes of soviet designs. thus it is at least capable as the m1a1 but still can challege the m1a2 abram.

    also i read that the soviet kontakt armour on t 72 could stop m1a1 shells in testing in germany is this true or is someone bullshiting on wekipidia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakt-5

    Finally a simple rule i read in miltary vehicle book when a enemy develops a new tank that seems all powerful and indistructable in a short space of time the opposition will develop a equal or superior weapon to counter their machine. this was esp true during ww2 similiar concept will apply today.
     
  5. crobato
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    crobato Colonel
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    The T-98/99 uses a longer rifle than the Russian T-90. The turret of the T-98 may be so designed to accomodate a longer breech than the Russian 125mm, which in turn means longer penetrating sabots. Chances are the gun has longer range and greater penetrating power.

    The T-98 also has a laser blinder that can blind targeting equipment or even gunner's eyes. I know that's against Geneva Convention but it does use laser blinders. If you try to light a laser on the tank, the blinder detects your laser, swings and shoot back right back at your laser and if you're unlucky, straight into your eyes as well.

    The T-98/99 is much more armored than a T-72. It is much heavier almost by 12 to 15 tons, and the T-99 on top of that is covered with ERA.
     
  6. ahho
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    ahho Junior Member

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    Hey utelore, since the situation is given, would the type-98 be mission killed and not able to return fire if type-98 draw first blood???
     
  7. MIGleader
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    MIGleader Banned Idiot

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    i didnt say the turrent was blown off. the turret was hit, and the inside exploded, blowing off some panels and taking a poor tanker's legs off.:(

    one thing the typt 98 lacks is crew safetly feature such as blow out panels and armnored comparments. i dont know if it was resolved on the 99, but it proves that is a t-72 shell can damadge an abrahms, a type 99 shell cna severly damage it.

    crew training is another main issue. how well trained would the abrams and type 99 crews be?
     
  8. renmin
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    renmin Junior Member

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    Your question, depends, The Abrams tank can be armed with diferent projectiles, one deadly arment is a explosive projectile fired from the Abrams, the purpose of it is to blow of the turret of an enemy tank. The Abrams destroyed many T-72s in the first gulf war with this projectile, a less powerful projectile fired at the type98 might take about three hits to take out the T-98.The main armament of the type 98is a fully-stabilized 125 mm smoothbore gun with autoloader. Ammunitions for the type 98 include armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot rounds (APFSDS), high explosive anti-tank rounds (HEAT), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectiles. China has also manufactured Russian A-11 laser guided anti-tank missile (ATGM) to be fired by the 125 mm gun. In addition, Depleted Uranium is also an extra arnment to the type 98
     
    #8 renmin, Dec 8, 2005
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2005
  9. utelore
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    utelore Junior Member
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    negitive, the abrams does not have a round designd to blow the turret off of other tanks. the reason you see so many t-72 with turret seperation is because of the ammo strorage and the way the auto loader is designed. turret seperation on a T-72 has been caused by everything from 120mm sabot/heat, TOW and bradley 25mm

    In OIF insurgents with aircraft bombs used as IED have caused abrams turret seperation but no tank has done this.
     
  10. FriedRiceNSpice
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    FriedRiceNSpice Senior Member

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    Can a Bradley 25mm really destroy a T-72? What kind of shells does the Bradley fire? Can it destroy all T-72s, or only those of poor quality?
     

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