Does science mean something different in China?

Geographer

Junior Member
Does science mean something different in China? Because every military news blast originating in China seems to invoke science. "Scientific escort"? What the heck is that? How many peer-reviewed articles are published based on that research? How many PhDs are on-board these ships? They are conducted training and research, not science. Science is the progress of discovering new knowledge of the natural or human world. New knowledge means new to the world, not just new to China. I'm pretty sure everything China is discovering it the anti-piracy missions about sea-keeping, maritime logistics, and so on is well known to the ancient navies of Britain, France, and the United States.

It seems to me that China is trying to cloak its military under the banner of "science." It's like saying, "This isn't a gun, it's a research tool! And I'm not going to shoot you, I'm going to conduct scientific research!" (Which is little comfort because "scientific research" was the justification for Japan's Unit 731 in China and Dr. Mengele in Germany). Call a spade a spade: it's not science, it's naval warfare. To call it science is an insult to real scientists.
 
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MwRYum

Major
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Does science mean something different in China? Because every military news blast originating in China seems to invoke science. "Scientific escort"? What the heck is that? How many peer-reviewed articles are published based on that research? How many PhDs are on-board these ships? They are conducted training and research, not science. Science is the progress of discovering new knowledge of the natural or human world. New knowledge means new to the world, not just new to China. I'm pretty sure everything China is discovering it the anti-piracy missions about sea-keeping, maritime logistics, and so on is well known to the ancient navies of Britain, France, and the United States.

It seems to me that China is trying to cloak its military under the banner of "science." It's like saying, "This isn't a gun, it's a research tool! And I'm not going to shoot you, I'm going to conduct scientific research!" (Which is little comfort because "scientific research" was the justification for Japan's Unit 731 in China and Dr. Mengele in Germany). Call a spade a spade: it's not science, it's naval warfare. To call it science is an insult to real scientists.

It's a fad in the official media, pretty stupid though.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Maybe it has something to do with Hu Jintao's "Scientific Development" ideology.
 
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Does science mean something different in China? Because every military news blast originating in China seems to invoke science. "Scientific escort"? What the heck is that? How many peer-reviewed articles are published based on that research? How many PhDs are on-board these ships? They are conducted training and research, not science. Science is the progress of discovering new knowledge of the natural or human world. New knowledge means new to the world, not just new to China. I'm pretty sure everything China is discovering it the anti-piracy missions about sea-keeping, maritime logistics, and so on is well known to the ancient navies of Britain, France, and the United States.

It seems to me that China is trying to cloak its military under the banner of "science." It's like saying, "This isn't a gun, it's a research tool! And I'm not going to shoot you, I'm going to conduct scientific research!" (Which is little comfort because "scientific research" was the justification for Japan's Unit 731 in China and Dr. Mengele in Germany). Call a spade a spade: it's not science, it's naval warfare. To call it science is an insult to real scientists.

From the many funny Chinese restaurant English menus I've seen I strongly suspect that poor translation or poor grasp of English is at fault here. I think within the context of this article when they say 'scientific' they actually mean being analytical and adapting (splitting into two speed-based groups) rather than being formulaic (staying in one big slow group) and unthinking (think = science!).
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Science is the progress of discovering new knowledge of the natural or human world. New knowledge means new to the world, not just new to China.


This is where culture differents.



It seems to me that China is trying to cloak its military under the banner of "science." It's like saying, "This isn't a gun, it's a research tool! And I'm not going to shoot you, I'm going to conduct scientific research!"

And this is where ideology over the WILL to understand the other side.

This use of "Scientific" wording, is at best a translation misunderstanding but with its own culture. I.E. If one never know the culture before, when he heard the term: "Rains cat and dog", he could laugh at it too. Like you pointed, discovery of new ways and new knowledge that can improve the current condition, it is SCIENCE. The different is being leading the world for the last few centuries, the west world is keen to specify the improvement quality should be like contributing to the whole mankind, but being preservative for the last few thousand years that believing "achieve your own self-perfection is your contribution to the world", the eastern mind welcomes any degree of improvements, and if that improvements is done in a systematic, ordered (in order), exploration by yourself way and achieved in a height that one field of matters can now follow that systematic way and improve, that is SCIENCE of its own right, no need of paper certificate to endorse it.

Now that would "only" be a culture difference if it ends there, but I presume while you have no bashing intention, you still "auto-switch" to ideology angle - Is the Chinese try to be funny with "great" words like "Scientific", and "Peace" and "civilian usage" alike, to hide their true devious intentions behind those great words, fool everyone and strike when they are ready???

It is the "auto-switch" part that shows the gap between the west and east, and the hardship for world peace.

Well, back to topic, it shows how important to have forums like SDF around to slowly build understanding - maybe not that easy to trust, but at least to understand is a good start.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

From the many funny Chinese restaurant English menus I've seen I strongly suspect that poor translation or poor grasp of English is at fault here. I think within the context of this article when they say 'scientific' they actually mean being analytical and adapting (splitting into two speed-based groups) rather than being formulaic (staying in one big slow group) and unthinking (think = science!).

Yep! I once saw a photo about a supermarket in China. The label for one aisle says "dried foods" in Chinese and "f..k food" in English. The Chinese word for "dry" can also be used to describe intercourse in Chinese slang. So if someone who has little grasp of English language happens to find an English slang dictionary and looks up the English word for the Chinese "doing it"/"dry", you get "f..k".
 
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Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

This is where culture differents.





And this is where ideology over the WILL to understand the other side.

This use of "Scientific" wording, is at best a translation misunderstanding but with its own culture. I.E. If one never know the culture before, when he heard the term: "Rains cat and dog", he could laugh at it too. Like you pointed, discovery of new ways and new knowledge that can improve the current condition, it is SCIENCE. The different is being leading the world for the last few centuries, the west world is keen to specify the improvement quality should be like contributing to the whole mankind, but being preservative for the last few thousand years that believing "achieve your own self-perfection is your contribution to the world", the eastern mind welcomes any degree of improvements, and if that improvements is done in a systematic, ordered (in order), exploration by yourself way and achieved in a height that one field of matters can now follow that systematic way and improve, that is SCIENCE of its own right, no need of paper certificate to endorse it.

Now that would "only" be a culture difference if it ends there, but I presume while you have no bashing intention, you still "auto-switch" to ideology angle - Is the Chinese try to be funny with "great" words like "Scientific", and "Peace" and "civilian usage" alike, to hide their true devious intentions behind those great words, fool everyone and strike when they are ready???

It is the "auto-switch" part that shows the gap between the west and east, and the hardship for world peace.

Well, back to topic, it shows how important to have forums like SDF around to slowly build understanding - maybe not that easy to trust, but at least to understand is a good start.

I have witnessed this kind of thing first hand. It goes both ways. People need to realize that despite the significant progress already made in communication and understanding across cultures and languages, the differences are still there and misunderstandings can easily happen unless we give others the benefit of the doubt and pursue clarity without judging. I definitely hope this military forum can contribute a little bit to world peace, as ironic as it may seem.
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Does science mean something different in China? Because every military news blast originating in China seems to invoke science. "Scientific escort"? What the heck is that? How many peer-reviewed articles are published based on that research? How many PhDs are on-board these ships? They are conducted training and research, not science. Science is the progress of discovering new knowledge of the natural or human world. New knowledge means new to the world, not just new to China. I'm pretty sure everything China is discovering it the anti-piracy missions about sea-keeping, maritime logistics, and so on is well known to the ancient navies of Britain, France, and the United States.

It seems to me that China is trying to cloak its military under the banner of "science." It's like saying, "This isn't a gun, it's a research tool! And I'm not going to shoot you, I'm going to conduct scientific research!" (Which is little comfort because "scientific research" was the justification for Japan's Unit 731 in China and Dr. Mengele in Germany). Call a spade a spade: it's not science, it's naval warfare. To call it science is an insult to real scientists.

Science in Chinese meaning to seek truth in reality rather than seek truth in doctrines, past practices or theoretical imagination. "scientific escort" would probably mean some sort of practice was implemented in reality rather than in minds of military theorist or computer simulation (I guessing here, needs to see to the Chinese version to truly know the context.)

edit: actually I think think about it, it's the true meaning of science. Testing a hypnosis before claiming it to be true. The true spirit of the scientific method.

The entry for military science does exactly describe what the Chinese are doing in Gulf of Aden.
Military science is the process of translating national defence policy to produce military capability by employing military scientists, including theorists, researchers, experimental scientists, applied scientists, designers, engineers, test technicians, and military personnel responsible for prototyping. In so doing, military science seeks to interpret policy into what military skills are required, which, by employing military concepts and military methods, can use military technologies, military weapon systems, and other military equipment to produce required military capability.
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delft

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Does science mean something different in China? Because every military news blast originating in China seems to invoke science. "Scientific escort"? What the heck is that? How many peer-reviewed articles are published based on that research? How many PhDs are on-board these ships? They are conducted training and research, not science. Science is the progress of discovering new knowledge of the natural or human world. New knowledge means new to the world, not just new to China. I'm pretty sure everything China is discovering it the anti-piracy missions about sea-keeping, maritime logistics, and so on is well known to the ancient navies of Britain, France, and the United States.

It seems to me that China is trying to cloak its military under the banner of "science." It's like saying, "This isn't a gun, it's a research tool! And I'm not going to shoot you, I'm going to conduct scientific research!" (Which is little comfort because "scientific research" was the justification for Japan's Unit 731 in China and Dr. Mengele in Germany). Call a spade a spade: it's not science, it's naval warfare. To call it science is an insult to real scientists.
Some time ago I read a review in my Dutch newspaper of a book that said that the excessive power of Western countries over the last two centuries led to Western terms with their own history being applied to Eastern ways of thinking. Western science is derived from Western philosophy which is derived from Western theology, i.e. mostly the Muslim ways of thinking during what we call the Middle Ages. Chinese, Japanese and Indian thoughts have a different history and a different division of areas of interest so a term like "Indian Philosophy" is an oxymoron.
 
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