Daesh and ISIS/ISIL

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by asif iqbal, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Being on SDF I think it's important we are politically correct

    For those who are more aware of the situation I suggest we start calling Daesh by its real name Daesh like Germany, UK, Turkey and France and many other country's do

    It's not islamic and it's not a state everyone knows this no need to explain

    I think all threads should be accordingly updated

     
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  2. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    Thanks for the suggestion, Asif, but as I said on the thread where you initially posted this...
    they refer to themselves by that name, their members are Islamic, and it is the name that the vast majority of mankind right now recognize them as.

    I realize they only represent a small fraction of Muslims/Islamics around the world. But throughout the west, with very, very few exceptions, they are being called that name...ISIS or ISIL.

    I agree that the name does not represent the main stream or vast majority of Islamic peoples.

    Having said that, I will personally continue to call them by the name which is the absolute most recognized way of knowing who we are talking about.

    It's like certain fanatical Christian groups, for example the Christian Identity movement. They do not represent Christianity, and behave completely in opposition to what Christ himself taught...yet that name is what we recognize them by and know who it is we are talking about.

    I have no problem with others referring to them as Daesh or Daish either.

    Arguments about it here on SD will not go on. There is no insult meant, or implied, by the us of that name for them and it would be a meaningless argument to try and force people here on SD to use one or the other of the names.

    Thanks.
     
    #2 Jeff Head, Jul 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
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  3. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Well I do not and could not force everyone to use them by their name I suggested nor would it be possible to enforce such a suggestion but I thought I would highlight it anyway

    And who cares what they call themselves? The west calls them by that name because tv channels like bbc have brainwashed everyone into believe they are called ISIS and ISIL

    And lastly which member of ISIS is islamic? Saying ISIS is islamic is like KKK is Christianity
     
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  4. janjak desalin
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    janjak desalin Junior Member

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    According to multiple sources DAISH, is simply a transliteration of the Arabic term that these terrorists' call themselves: al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant), i. e., ISIL. It seems to me that either iteration advances the fiction that either they are of, or are representative of, the Ummah.

    Although the Anglo world prefers the Angloized iteration (and aren't we all former British subjects writing in English, here) and does not defer to the language used to identify them by some of those who have suffered by their atrocities, as many in the non-Anglophone world do, my independent interpretation of the two iteratiions is that the only technical difference between the two is the language, a linguistic orientation or choice.

    Kurdish and Yadzidi communities have also suffered greatly by these terrorists' hand. And, as Kurdish units have had the greater and more significant successes against them in battle, thus far, is their linguistic name for ISIL not equally as valid as the Arabic? And,what of Yadzidi peoples; is their linguistic name for ISIL not equally as valid as the Arabic? Is it actually political correctness to prefer one to the others, or is it simply the privileging of one over the others? In that sense ISIS/ISIL is to DAESH/DAISH as DAESH/DAISH is to Kurdish and Yadziki iterations.

    Cultural relativity and the cultural sesitivities it fosters are very useful analytical positons and interpretive considerations; nevertheless, when attempting these considerations, it is vital that one recognize all of the cultural stakeholders within a given context. Consequently, it is simplistic and reductionist to suggest that only Arab peoples have suffered these terrorists' atrocities and therefore, their name for the group is the correct one. As I've stated here once before, as to matters of which I am only an observer, I prefer to use infinitive as opposed to definitive terms. This creates an environment for discourse that actually welcomes alternative interpretations and diminishes the potential for conflict.

    The world has never spoken one language, and hopefully, never will.
     
    #4 janjak desalin, Jul 17, 2015
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  5. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Yes but that is not the point here

    The point is everyone who uses the world ISIS or ISIL is doing so because mainstream media is calling them that, even although parliament in UK has decided to call them Daesh brainwashed channels like bbc, cnn CNBC etc are still refusing to call them Daesh

    Does SDF a professional military forum have to function at that same level ?

    All major European country's have renamed them Daesh, so if anyone still continues to use that name they are either uninformed or deliberately trying to offend me
     
    #5 asif iqbal, Jul 17, 2015
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  6. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    I don't think you have a right to tell anyone what they should and should not suggest in the feedback and suggestions thread in a attempt to improve the forum

    Posts and members have contributed to magazines, books and journals from SDF it's imagine and reputation is a concern since I am a member here and as a member I have a right to voice my concern

    If you do not agree with a suggestion you either debate or challenge the suggestion rather than trying to shut it down as I am sure that is not a good reflection on you either
     
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  7. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Colonel

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    I do not agree that we have to politically correct here however as professionals we have to be politically 'indifferent'. To me there's a big difference.

    What does that mean? To me that means we should not purposely offend others for the sake of offending through own biasness either by race, religion, gender, political affiliation or in forums like this nationalism.

    We should also never ever paint by broad strokes however it also means we should not paint rosy pictures when non exist nor should we exclude specificities on certain topics.

    If an Islamic militant yells allahu akhbar and kills innocents while claiming to be Islamic martyr then we should call him as such. What we should NOT do is to paint every Muslim as that.
    No different than if the perp is of any other race or religion. If a self proclaim white Christian mows down innocents with an AR 15 on one hand and a King James Bible on the other calming to do the work of Jesus I'm going to call him a psycho white Christian militant. I'm not going to sugar coat things like they do in the press.

    I certainly do understand where you're coming from asif.. Trust me I do. I'm ashamed to say Americans are masters of painting with broad strokes and stereotypes not just pertaining to ISIS but even to fellow citizens where we stereotype base on race, religion, gender etc.

    As an example many Sikhs were target of discrimination after 9/11 and as you know they are not even Muslims. Many Muslims were target of hate crimes as well. The idiots who committed these crimes are murderous idiots and in many ways not too different than the perps of 9/11 themselves.

    Calling ISIS DAESH or some other term is not going to make these fools know any different. Educated folks like yourself and many if not most here knows they are one of the same. but to the average American or even most of the world if the press starts calling them DAESH then soon they will also equate DAESH to islamic militancy so it doesn't really prevent stereotypes.
    But I do not believe that being super politically correct mitigates those things. In many ways I think it actually exagerbates it.

    Anyway that's just my personal opinion and how I personally look at things. At the end of the day all these mainstream 20th century terms are just a load of bullcrap. What really matters is common sense.
    Call things as they are but don't paint with broad strokes.
     
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  8. janjak desalin
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    janjak desalin Junior Member

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    It's my point!

    If you think that I will privilege either your opinions or your cultural sensitivities, based upon assertions of an assumed moral superiority or an appeal to group-think, you are mistaken. I don't care what the whole world is calling anything; I think for myself, something at which I notice that many commentators, here, are quite adept, and others not so much so. People can follow whatever they choose; to either demand, or expect, that I do as they do constitutes an attempt to violate the very foundation of my humanity, my individual autonomy.

    As Kwaigonegin as suggested, in so many words, it is incumbent upon those that aspire to intellectual discourse only to apply rigorous crtitical analyses. It is not, however, incumbent upon them to present their opinions in "politcally correct" terms.


    Take it or leave it!
     
    #8 janjak desalin, Jul 17, 2015
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  9. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    No one has said what you can or cannot suggest. ergo...you have suggested it and I have replied.

    And you have done so.

    You may think of me as you wish. I have simply replied to the suggestion.

    As a Super Moderator here...I will repeat, that it is not something we are going to argue about. At this stage, such an argument would be meaningless.
     
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  10. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Well maybe I should rephrase my last post, I should say to be clear that regardless of whatever people call them on here SDF I do not get offended, I should at minimum assume that when people says ISIS or ISIL they are distinguishing the difference even before I or someone else brings it up as Daesh

    I guess on the internet it's big more difficult to get that point across and I did not mean to offend anyone by saying so

    But moreover I also wanted to highlight that it's the media that sets out these connotations which is then followed by the masses, most of the time knowingly and also unknowingly but it's our duty to be self correcting

    Regardless of what we call them I know the fellow SDF members know what the difference is as many of us have been around here for years and I should have taken that into account

    Point has been cleared
     
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